GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 777132
Bring back open with other application sub-menu in Nautilus context menu
Last modified: 2020-12-27 18:45:00 UTC
Created attachment 343302 [details] Screenshot Dear all, I was recommended to start a discussion here by the Ubuntu developers [1]. I would like to ask you to bring back the sub-menu to open a file with "Other application". Previously it was possible to select the other application directly from the sub-menu. Now, I need to perform an extra step by first clicking on "Other application" and then selecting it from the list. For further reference, please also see the attached screenshot. I would like to hear some thoughts and opinions on my request. Yours, -Robert [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1655635
Hey Robert, sure, let's discuss it. Why do you need open in a different app? Is it a repetitive task? If so, why is that app not the default one?
Dear Carlos, Thank you very much for your prompt reply and the willingness to discuss it! Example: mp3 files. I usually want them to open with my preferred audio player. However, sometimes I want to open and edit them using Audacity. For these situations the old sub-menu was working fast and well. Now, it's more complicated to select my other application. Does that make sense? -R
I think it would be at least advisable to let it as an option to select from preferences. As Robert said the sub-menu is useful in all that situations where you have separated viewers and editors for a certain file-type and for obvious ergonomic reasons you don't want to ever open the file with the editor, but maybe you need to do it often or repeatedly for some time (if you use the same PC to see photos like almost all users do and you need to edit them during your job, as a concrete example). Another situation when it's good to have a sub-menu is if you have more editors for one file-type and you use sometimes one and sometimes the other (all text-based files are a good example of this, where you can ever use gedit, emacs and maybe some more specific editor, like Texmaker, or the Octave GUI for example). On the other hand I can't see any benefit from removing the sub-menu at all, at least for the user experience.
*** Bug 779938 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
This actions is necessary for any more than casual user IMO. I mean, we're a professional platform, other than Apple that tries to remove features and go from OS X to iOS, we can have powerful tools. Thanks!
I give you a few more examples: - image files: image viewer (image magick), gimp, ... - videos: sometime i need to open them in vlc, sometimes not - audio: being a sound artist, i have many applications that i need to open audio files in (audacity, eisenkraut, ...) - text files: self-explanatory (i use different text editors for different sets of features) - pdf files: document viewer (evince), inkscape, ... - dot file: xdot (graphviz) vs. text editor (this goes for literally any document type that has plain text format) etc. Mostly, I need two alternative applications to open a specific document type.
(In reply to Sciss from comment #6) > I give you a few more examples: > > - image files: image viewer (image magick), gimp, ... Do you open them so frequently in two applications instead of just one? > - videos: sometime i need to open them in vlc, sometimes not Yeah, the point is the "sometimes". If Totem (videos) doesn't work with some video and that's why you need to open in VLC, please file a bug in there. Or do you have some reason to open in one but not the other? > - audio: being a sound artist, i have many applications that i need to open > audio files in (audacity, eisenkraut, ...) True, for graphic and audio professionals this can be a slightly inconvenient. The point is, once you are in the application you need, don't you open the files from there? As in, if you are professional you always have these applications open, so probably you open from there or have some sort of "project" management inside. > - text files: self-explanatory (i use different text editors for different > sets of features) Cannot you put a default application different for each type? Like you have some kind of "text" (I guess you mean doc, pdf, Latex, etc right?) so you can put already a different default application for each of them. > - pdf files: document viewer (evince), inkscape, ... I don't understand this one. > - dot file: xdot (graphviz) vs. text editor (this goes for literally any > document type that has plain text format) Neither this one, is not there some application that works with xdot already? > > etc. Mostly, I need two alternative applications to open a specific document > type. I see, tbh from these the only one I see that it could be really an issue to do the extra click for file is graphic and audio professional environments. In any case, in a future, we will do the portals, as in nautilus won't mess up with your system apps, you will choose from the Flatpak portal or so. I wonder whether they took into consideration these cases.
On 2017-03-12 16:40, nautilus (GNOME Bugzilla) wrote: > *Comment # 7 <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777132#c7> on > bug 777132 <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777132> from > Carlos Soriano * > > (In reply to Sciss from comment #6) >> I give you a few more examples: > > - image files: image viewer (image magick), gimp, ... > > Do you open them so frequently in two applications instead of just one? yes, basically all the time. i am a digital artist. i edit files a lot. >> - videos: sometime i need to open them in vlc, sometimes not > > Yeah, the point is the "sometimes". If Totem (videos) doesn't work with some > video and that's why you need to open in VLC, please file a bug in there. Or do > you have some reason to open in one but not the other? yes. please don't be patronising. trust me, i work with digital media since decades, i know what i'm doing. >> - audio: being a sound artist, i have many applications that i need to open > audio files in (audacity, eisenkraut, ...) > > True, for graphic and audio professionals this can be a slightly inconvenient. > The point is, once you are in the application you need, don't you open the > files from there? because that's the whole point of having a desktop browser. if you recommend that i don't open files from nautilus, then you could as well recommend not to use nautilus at all. > As in, if you are professional you always have these > applications open, so probably you open from there or have some sort of > "project" management inside. no. >> - text files: self-explanatory (i use different text editors for different > sets of features) > > Cannot you put a default application different for each type? Like you have > some kind of "text" (I guess you mean doc, pdf, Latex, etc right?) so you can > put already a different default application for each of them. yes. some text are better to edit in gedit, others are better to edit in jedit. it depends on the situation. >> - pdf files: document viewer (evince), inkscape, ... > I don't understand this one. sometimes you view pdf documents, sometimes you edit them. >> - dot file: xdot (graphviz) vs. text editor (this goes for literally any > document type that has plain text format) > > Neither this one, is not there some application that works with xdot already? the graphviz file format is a human readable text. you can have it rendered as a graph, as in xdot, or you can edit it in a text file >>> etc. Mostly, I need two alternative applications to open a specific > document > type. > > I see, tbh from these the only one I see that it could be really an issue to do > the extra click for file is graphic and audio professional environments. i think it's an issue for anyone that doesn't just dabble around on their desktop, i.e. anyone that is not an Apple iLife crowd. And those, well, they use Apple. best regards, hanns holger
I understand if you couldn't choose an application at all, but you can. It's just one click away more (for only when it's not your default application, which has to be <50%). In any case, I understand that you are a professional artist, I'm not pratonising you, but I'm the once doing the code and implementing the solutions, so either there is an effort to understand each other or this goes nowhere :) As said, I can see the two applications use case, not sure it worth a different design than what we have now, but since it seems difficult to understand each other, maybe you can reach our designers which are in your field too, and ask them what they think about this? They are in IRC, at irc.gnome.org #gnome-design. Since you are designer too if you want to propose a solution that works for touch and with portals (which are the main issues of the previous submenu), please go ahead, I'll be happy to implement once you agree a solution with the designers.
I understand perfectly well that you are implementing the software. But I would like to be clear: You are removing a feature that was hitherto available on any newly installed Debian system. That's thousands and thousands of people. I would appreciate if design decisions were not made on personal taste but usability concerns.
By the way, since I talked bad about Apple, a company that has very strong opinions about how their users should use their operating system. Arguably the Finder is one of the most complex pieces of software that they are evolving since very long time. In the latest OS X Sierra, you are still one click away in the Finder from the said Open-With function. And there is a reason digital designers love the platform. If you are unsure, please make a poll. I'm confident most people will like to have quick Open-With access while being annoyed of having to deactivate the default of unpacking archives with double click instead of launching the package browser, just to mention one "new feature".
Me too, and we try with our designs. But please join us on making that happen better, start here http://opensource-usability.blogspot.cz/2016/08/gnome-usability-test-analysis.html :)
Thank you, I will try to take the test :)
*** Bug 783730 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
How can I unsubscribe myself from this bug report?
(In reply to Robert Orzanna from comment #16) > How can I unsubscribe myself from this bug report? See if you can remove yourself from the CC list. I cannot remove you, since you’re the reporter.
Thank you, Ernestas! However, I cannot remove myself from the CC list as I am not even on it. See the attached screenshot. Is this a bug in the system?
Created attachment 354388 [details] cannot unsubscribe
(In reply to Robert Orzanna from comment #18) > Thank you, Ernestas! > > However, I cannot remove myself from the CC list as I am not even on it. > > See the attached screenshot. > > Is this a bug in the system? No, it appears that you can only ignore bugs on a later Bugzilla release. I can only advise you to add a filter in your email account.
Thank you, Ernestas.
*** Bug 751373 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Another (perhaps more common) use case is editing html files. It is very common to develop these files in an IDE and then test them in multiple browsers. As a work around, why not just default to having a single application for opening files but allow uses to add other recommended applications to the context menu.
Carlos Soriano, has there been any update on this? I just upgraded to Ubuntu 18.04 and was appalled by the lack of this feature. When working, I use it frequently, dozens time of day. I am a translator, working on subtitles. I use several subtitle editors and gedit to manipulate them. I do not have those editors open all the time (you suggest that is a typical workflow, but since the prorams I work with start under one second, my workflow works by closing them after I am finished with them. It is also good because that way I do not overwrite the file after I have worked on it with another program. Workflows really are variable). I also sometimes need to check a video I produce in VLC, which is what my clients use (I personally use MPV, but that is not a very common player). I also sometimes use Audacity. The "open with" option was really useful. Actually, I will try Nemo and those other Nautilus alternatives because of this, I am afraid.
If we ever turn the context menus into popovers, maybe we can bring the dialog features into the menu itself and have the best of both worlds? Looking at the bigger picture, I think a [pre]viewer feature might cover some of the use cases listed, in particular the image viewer (EOG) vs. image editor (GIMP) case.
Not really. Image viewer is still going to have more features you might need (perhaps you want to check resolution of the image? some of its EXIF properties?). I cannot really imagine a scenario on a desktop where you don't sometimes need to open one extension in multiple programs.
(In reply to Tomáš Hnyk from comment #26) > Image viewer is still going to have more features you might need "might" is the keyword here. If you won't need it often, it should not be prioritized over what you need most of the time. The current "Open with Other Application" action is adequate when you "might need" it but usually don't. (In reply to Tomáš Hnyk from comment #26) > (perhaps you want to check resolution of the image? some of its EXIF > properties?). Actually, nautilus already shows you the resolution and EXIF metadata in the file Properties. (In reply to Tomáš Hnyk from comment #26) > I cannot really imagine a scenario on a desktop where you > don't sometimes need to open one extension in multiple programs. "Sometimes" is the keyword here. The same reasoning applies. The real question is when there is not one clear "single most used app" to set as default, as in the use cases already provided in this thread (including your use case involving the translation of subtitles).
The current behaviour is fine as a default, but even in the case where there is a 'single most used app' the DE shouldn't force such an unnecessary paradigm down a user's throat. I understand that this ideology can and has gone too far before with DE's that allow you to customise everything, but it is also possible to go too far in the other direction which I think is what is happening here.
+1 I get upset every day because I have to open a terminal to open a file with a different app than usual just because this quite nice menu has gone! Yes, opening a terminal (right click -> open in terminal) and entering gedit file.m3u8 (playlist normally opened with video player) is much faster than right click -> open with -> all applications -> search This happens to me multiple times a day with different file types.
Closing as WONTFIX per comment 7, comment 9, and comment 27 as there are currently no further changes planned.
Not that "The real question is when there is not one clear "single most used app" to set as default, as in the use cases already provided in this thread (including your use case involving the translation of subtitles)." from mentioned comment 27 ever got resolved. But hey, Nemo works, so what. Oh, how GNOME 2 used to be great...
As written beforehand, it feels acceptable to make some users perform an extra click for their less common use cases. Hence I set WONTFIX to reflect reality instead of creating hopes that won't be fulfilled soon. "GNOME 2" (or Windows 95 UI design) remarks are pretty irrelevant and off-topic here though - you are free to use whatever desktop environment you prefer, obviously.
The situation you quote from my comment has not been resolved. That's true. And neighter is it resolvable by a submenu, because the double-click action still picks one single app for you. One way to address that situation would be not to set a default and, instead, popup the Open With dialog on double click. Other ideas are welcome. In any case, this is already very much out of scope for this particular bug report.
Well, there is no need to reinvent the wheel, just bringing back a submenu would work. As for using whatever DE I want, well, I am using Unity and Nemo now, thanks to a lot of design decision GNOME took. But using abandoned software is a pain in the ass too.
I just migrated from Ubuntu 16.04 to 20.04 and find it very annoying, that the "open with" menu has been removed. Please bring it back! I use it all the time, and the new way makes it more complicated. I use it mainly for: - Choose to open images with Gimp or the image viewer - Open html files in Firefox or text editor - Open CSV files with Libreoffice Calc or text editor
(In reply to Klemens Ullmann from comment #35) > Please bring it back! Sorry, that is five years too late. Please read the previous comments - thanks! :)
Can we somehow close this bug for further replies?