GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 758122
HIG violation regarding the use of punctuations including ellipses and parentheses
Last modified: 2019-03-20 10:54:34 UTC
In GNOME HIG, page Typography, Chapter `Take advantage of Unicode' (https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/typography.html.en), it reads: > Unicode provides a wide variety of characters which, when used correctly, can dramatically improve the impression given by your application. The following Unicode characters are recommended: The zh_CN language also uses the ellipsis character natively (as in national standard[a]). However, the coordinators and committers of the zh_CN language force the use of three periods, an old and deprecated (at least in GNOME msgids) approximation. An example of this bug can be seen at GTK+3 commit 2d1a793, where the committer apply the bug to correct ones. https://github.com/GNOME/gtk/commit/2d1a793d575622db937938baad38124cdbb0bdad (Ignore the comments..) There are also some other similar HIG violations which prefers incorrect use of western characters in the old zh_CN l10n guide, and some can be seen at https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2015-September/msg00152.html. I added "for ellipses, follow what the msgid uses" in a later version. A complaint has been sent to https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/i18n-zh/pQgnTcjETcs already. * * * Notes: * a: In zh_CN text, people should use two of these characters, so it looks like 6 dots. However, it's common sense that in UI three dots are enough.
Here is the translation for that complaint: > Days ago I was arguing with Aron on the use of punctuations, and it ended > without any results. I was inspired by my () just now, so I looked it up in > the HIG, and found it at [HIG LINK]. Although the examples are mainly for > western text, but the point is to use the [typographically] correct chars.
Well, I have to say due to bug 757867 and their ignorance (and actual act to ignore) on CJK typography I believe this bug will be new forever.
As a Chinese, I can confirm that the correct usage of ellipsis mark is “…” instead of “...”. Wikipedia also has a section of an article about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis#In_Chinese And there is also law regulations about this. The fact is before Unicode is invented, Chinese users felt difficult to input the Unicode form and had to use three dots to substitute it. But the most recent Gnome HIG should follow the correct Unicode form.
There were no reply from any of the responsible GNOME people to that complaint yet, but the creator of that list, Dongsheng Song (dongsheng), has posted a reply: > Thanks for your reminder. Indeed, using “General Punctuation” is the best solution. > > http://www.unicode.org/charts/ > http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2000.pdf
Explaination sent to https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2015-November/msg00040.html too.
Reasoning posted as http://en.arguman.org/correct-ellipses-u2026-should-be-used-for-gnome-zh_cn-l10n/15168.
Additional info: Aron talked about this for a bit with me at https://groups.google.com/d/msg/i18n-zh/v_qLhCQDg1A/Kg6LzT4kAwAJ. There were no further replies after I posted the screenshots.
Correction: there were replies, but it looked like: > Young man, do I really need to say "with the account I have control of > everything".. Well, it's true that I am holding too much of such > responsibilities and if you want to I can let you take on some of those in > the future, haha. > > The problem is not about typeface designs or rendering techniques, the > problem is there's no professionals to configure them. Then I said there were some `religious conflicts' to resolve before reducing to a single solution, and Apple's current solution is as simple as "don't hint, just anti-alias it". I should have mentioned the intermediate solution, hintslight though. > But no matter which preference [between MS-style serious hinting and Apple- > style hintnone] you take, neither of them gives results that are as good as > Windows or OSX. And I mentioned MacType, a software that overrides the default Windows rendering with FreeType. Many Mac fans use it to get Mac-like rendering on Windows since they consider it better.
Added parentheses as the guide also prefers ASCII/western parens over CJK parens for CJK text. It's a violation of the national standard, too. And this is ugly still. CJK characters are typically 1em * 1em large, and will appear taller than the cap height and sometimes even taller than ascender. ASCII parens designed for western text is too small for them.
* are too small for CJK chars.
It's surprising to see that in English, you use half of the ellipsis for Chinese, and in Chinese you use the usual ellipsis in online English text....
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