(Works a lot better, I think, if I actually add Rodney to this bug)

You probably need to explain a few of the icon names in some more detail for them to make sense to the average non-hal-maintainer, David. I have no idea what the difference between cf, ms, sd and sm is...

(In reply to comment #2)
> You probably need to explain a few of the icon names in some more detail for
> them to make sense to the average non-hal-maintainer, David. I have no idea
> what the difference between cf, ms, sd and sm is...

Fair enough.. 

drive-harddisk-ata              # Generic drive connected through ATA, IDE, SATA; e.g. what most users have
drive-harddisk-ieee1394         # Generic drive connected through Firewire
drive-harddisk-scsi             # Generic drive connected through SCSI
drive-harddisk-usb              # Generic drive connected through USB
drive-optical-recorder          # An optical drive with recording capabilities (e.g. CD burner, DVD burner)
drive-removable-media-flash     # A drive for flash cards (can take multiple formats)
drive-removable-media-flash-cf  # A drive for Compact Flash cards
drive-removable-media-flash-ms  # Memory Stick
drive-removable-media-flash-sd  # SD/MMC
drive-removable-media-flash-sm  # Smart Media
drive-removable-media-floppy    # Drive for floppy disks
drive-removable-media-ata       # A generic drive for removable media connected through ATA
drive-removable-media-ieee1394  # A generic drive for removable media connected through ATA
drive-removable-media-scsi      # A generic drive for removable media connected through SCSI
drive-removable-media-usb       # A generic drive for removable media connected through USB
drive-removable-media-tape      # Drive for tape

media-flash-cf                  # Inserted media is Compact Flash
media-flash-ms                  # Inserted media is Memory Stick
media-memory-sd                 # Inserted media is SD/MMC
media-memory-sm                 # Inserted media is SmartMedia
media-optical-audio             # Inserted media is an audio compact disc
media-optical-bd-re             # Blu-Ray rewritable
media-optical-bd-rom            # Blu-Ray ROM
media-optical-bd-r              # Blu-Ray recordable
media-optical-cd-rom            # CD-ROM
media-optical-cd-r              # CD-R

media-optical-cd-rw             # CD-RW
media-optical-dvd-dl-r-plus     # Dual Layer DVD+R
media-optical-dvd-ram           # DVD-RAM
media-optical-dvd-rom           # DVD-ROM
media-optical-dvd-r-plus        # DVD+R
media-optical-dvd-r             # DVD-r
media-optical-dvd-rw-plus       # DVD+RW
media-optical-dvd-rw            # DVD-RW
media-optical-hddvd-rom         # High Definition DVD-ROM
media-optical-hddvd-r           # High Definition DVD-R
media-optical-hddvd-rw          # High Definition DVD-RW
media-optical-mo                # Magneto Optical (yes, some people use this)

Useful links that may provide artistic inspiration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompactFlash
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartMedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MemoryStick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi_Media_Card
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(audio_CD_standard)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-Ray
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDDVD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_tape#Data_storage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto-optical_drive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT_Attachment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCSI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB

Also, to avoid a combinatorial explosion and to keep things somewhat manageable some choices were made:

 1. If we know the drive type (e.g. optical discs, flash, floppy etc.) then we don't bother about the connection type (e.g. usb, firewire)

 2. We care a lot more about the media vs. the drive because the media icons are what the user is going to see the most (the drive icons will mostly only appear in computer:///) e.g. on the desktop, in the Places menu and in the file chooser.

Btw, should read "media-flash" instead of "media-memory" everywhere. Here is the final list of icons when combining with the already existing names in the icon naming spec 

http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html

EXISTING ICON NAMES
-------------------

drive-harddisk        # The icon used for hard disk drives.
drive-optical         # The icon used for optical media drives such as CD and DVD.
drive-removable-media # The icon used for removable media drives. 

media-flash           # The icon used for generic physical media.
media-floppy          # The icon used for physical floppy disk media.
media-optical         # The icon used for physical optical media such as CD and DVD. 
media-tape            # The icon used for generic physical tape media. 

NEW ICON NAMES
--------------

drive-harddisk-ata              # Generic drive connected through ATA, IDE,
SATA; e.g. what most users have
drive-harddisk-ieee1394         # Generic drive connected through Firewire
drive-harddisk-scsi             # Generic drive connected through SCSI
drive-harddisk-usb              # Generic drive connected through USB
drive-optical-recorder          # An optical drive with recording capabilities
(e.g. CD burner, DVD burner)
drive-removable-media-flash     # A drive for flash cards (can take multiple
formats)
drive-removable-media-flash-cf  # A drive for Compact Flash cards
drive-removable-media-flash-ms  # Memory Stick
drive-removable-media-flash-sd  # SD/MMC
drive-removable-media-flash-sm  # Smart Media
drive-removable-media-floppy    # Drive for floppy disks
drive-removable-media-ata       # A generic drive for removable media connected
through ATA
drive-removable-media-ieee1394  # A generic drive for removable media connected
through ATA
drive-removable-media-scsi      # A generic drive for removable media connected
through SCSI
drive-removable-media-usb       # A generic drive for removable media connected
through USB
drive-removable-media-tape      # Drive for tape

media-flash-cf                  # Inserted media is Compact Flash
media-flash-ms                  # Inserted media is Memory Stick
media-flash-sd                 # Inserted media is SD/MMC
media-flash-sm                 # Inserted media is SmartMedia
media-optical-audio             # Inserted media is an audio compact disc
media-optical-bd-re             # Blu-Ray rewritable
media-optical-bd-rom            # Blu-Ray ROM
media-optical-bd-r              # Blu-Ray recordable
media-optical-cd-rom            # CD-ROM
media-optical-cd-r              # CD-R
media-optical-cd-rw             # CD-RW
media-optical-dvd-dl-r-plus     # Dual Layer DVD+R
media-optical-dvd-ram           # DVD-RAM
media-optical-dvd-rom           # DVD-ROM
media-optical-dvd-r-plus        # DVD+R
media-optical-dvd-r             # DVD-r
media-optical-dvd-rw-plus       # DVD+RW
media-optical-dvd-rw            # DVD-RW
media-optical-hddvd-rom         # High Definition DVD-ROM
media-optical-hddvd-r           # High Definition DVD-R
media-optical-hddvd-rw          # High Definition DVD-RW
media-optical-mo                # Magneto Optical (yes, some people use this)

Also need icons for encrypted media; need one icon for when the volume is locked and one for when it's unlocked. 

Going to use drive-encrypted and media-encryped for resp. the locked vs. the unlocked state (similar to how we use drive-* for unmounted and media-* for mounted).

So the list now looks like this

EXISTING ICON NAMES
-------------------

drive-harddisk        # The icon used for hard disk drives.
drive-optical         # The icon used for optical media drives such as CD and
DVD.
drive-removable-media # The icon used for removable media drives. 

media-flash           # The icon used for generic physical media.
media-floppy          # The icon used for physical floppy disk media.
media-optical         # The icon used for physical optical media such as CD and
DVD. 
media-tape            # The icon used for generic physical tape media. 

NEW ICON NAMES
--------------

drive-harddisk-ata              # Generic drive connected through ATA, IDE,
SATA; e.g. what most users have
drive-harddisk-ieee1394         # Generic drive connected through Firewire
drive-harddisk-scsi             # Generic drive connected through SCSI
drive-harddisk-usb              # Generic drive connected through USB
drive-optical-recorder          # An optical drive with recording capabilities
(e.g. CD burner, DVD burner)
drive-removable-media-flash     # A drive for flash cards (can take multiple
formats)
drive-removable-media-flash-cf  # A drive for Compact Flash cards
drive-removable-media-flash-ms  # Memory Stick
drive-removable-media-flash-sd  # SD/MMC
drive-removable-media-flash-sm  # Smart Media
drive-removable-media-floppy    # Drive for floppy disks
drive-removable-media-ata       # A generic drive for removable media connected
through ATA
drive-removable-media-ieee1394  # A generic drive for removable media connected
through ATA
drive-removable-media-scsi      # A generic drive for removable media connected
through SCSI
drive-removable-media-usb       # A generic drive for removable media connected
through USB
drive-removable-media-tape      # Drive for tape
drive-encrypted                 # Representing encrypted media that needs to be unlocked

media-flash-cf                  # Inserted media is Compact Flash
media-flash-ms                  # Inserted media is Memory Stick
media-flash-sd                  # Inserted media is SD/MMC
media-flash-sm                  # Inserted media is SmartMedia
media-optical-audio             # Inserted media is an audio compact disc
media-optical-bd-re             # Blu-Ray rewritable
media-optical-bd-rom            # Blu-Ray ROM
media-optical-bd-r              # Blu-Ray recordable
media-optical-cd-rom            # CD-ROM
media-optical-cd-r              # CD-R
media-optical-cd-rw             # CD-RW
media-optical-dvd-dl-r-plus     # Dual Layer DVD+R
media-optical-dvd-ram           # DVD-RAM
media-optical-dvd-rom           # DVD-ROM
media-optical-dvd-r-plus        # DVD+R
media-optical-dvd-r             # DVD-r
media-optical-dvd-rw-plus       # DVD+RW
media-optical-dvd-rw            # DVD-RW
media-optical-hddvd-rom         # High Definition DVD-ROM
media-optical-hddvd-r           # High Definition DVD-R
media-optical-hddvd-rw          # High Definition DVD-RW
media-optical-mo                # Magneto Optical (yes, some people use this)
media-encrypted                 # Encrypted media

Using media-encrypted for unlocked state doesn't sound right to me. drive-encrypted-unlocked sounds more appropriate. 

(In reply to comment #7)
> Using media-encrypted for unlocked state doesn't sound right to me.
> drive-encrypted-unlocked sounds more appropriate. 

Right, I think the locked/unlocked thing needs more thought. I'll give it some thought. Also, I have some icons that Mike Langlie @ Red Hat have drawn, see

http://people.freedesktop.org/~david/gvfs-pretty-icons.png

I'll attach them to this bug shortly.

To this "let's show everything possible" logic something is missing, like drive-optical-*.
And if you include MOs you should consider the 5,25" floppy (ok not the 8" ones), ditto, zip, zip250, zip750, jaz, REV and other strange and abandoned devices and respective drives naturally. I think all this stuff is kinda overkill, Really.
I propose to forget about encrypted/unlocked states and connection protocols (it could be managed by the fm with emblems), add some more generic drives if needed like a drive-removable-media-flash and the media-optical-recorder (not sure if this name makes sense tho) you mentioned then concetrate on medias, I'll happily draw every possible media icon.
For devices better to concentrate on real individual device icons as proposed in the device extension of the naming specs.

> To this "let's show everything possible" logic something is missing,
> like drive-optical-*.

Please reread comment 4. As I told you on IRC, it's all fine. We have fallbacks for this particular reason. So if you don't want to show everything simply use an icon theme without the icons. It will work.

Note in _particular_ that I said I don't think all these icons belong in gnome-icon-theme as per comment 0. Many if these icons can go into an -extras package or whatever and people who wants icons that adequately reflect their hardware can install that.

> I think all this stuff is kinda overkill, Really.

Your opinion has been noted.

Btw wrt.

> (it could be managed by the fm with emblems)

Emblems are not going to work; icons for drives and volumes are used in many places outside the file manager (the panel and file chooser to name two).

And sorry if I sound negative. It's just we're already shipping with these names in 2.22 (feedback earlier would have been helpful) and no-one is forcing you to draw all of them. Limiting other people (like not showing that a generic drive is connected via USB) because you think the naming scheme is too detailed is just not going to work, sorry.

Of course, if you have concerns how the naming scheme is constructed (e.g. prefer media to connection types) let us discuss that.

> like drive-optical-*

No, this would clearly never work. The way optical drives work is that it greatly differs what capabilities they have; some can write DVD-r, some can write DVD+R and so on. In total you have

  storage.cdrom.bd = false  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.bdr = false  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.bdre = false  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.cdr = true  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.cdrw = true  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.dvd = true  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.dvdplusr = true  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.dvdplusrdl = false  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.dvdplusrw = true  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.dvdplusrwdl = false  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.dvdr = true  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.dvdram = false  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.dvdrw = true  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.hddvd = false  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.hddvdr = false  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.hddvdrw = false  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.mo = false  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.mrw = true  (bool)
  storage.cdrom.mrw_w = true  (bool)

which is 19 on/off flags. So to represent all these states, it would require more than half a million icons. So that's why we boil it down to two states (the drive can record or not).

I don't want to be negative as well, I only think this scheme doesn't work, anyway the right place to talk about naming is not this one but f.d.o, I'm not a naming guy just a lousy graphician doing icons.
Said that I think adding all this stuff to an eventual extra theme will be messy, we used to have lot of stuff in g-i-t and it was an unmaintainable mess before Rodney and Jakub cleaned up the house, calling a package like something else will not make it maintainable. I still think using emblems is the way (think about encryption, you can crypt every kind of media for example), I'm not a coder so I don't know exactly how the gears underneat our stuff turns, but if emblems are usable only within nautilus if would probably be a good idea to work on a generic icon composing lib or something like that.

Created attachment 108190 [details]
Screenshot of missing icons for locked and unlocked encrypted volumes

I'm not certain if this is the right bug to report this on, but the icons in 2.22 appear not to be falling back correctly, at least for encrypted/unencrypted drives.  Should I be filing a different bug for this, or is it simply that these icons haven't been added yet?  I'd be happy to provide any further information that might be of use, or run tests if this is unexpected behaviour.  Just let me know what I can do to help...  5:)

David: sorry for lagging behind with the feedback. I noted the message on both on the mailing list and here in bugzilla. We're short on people (as always) and have been busy with other stuff during the last release. :(

I would like to know more about the feature in general before getting messy with the pixels. :)
For whom is this for? What problem is this trying to solve, and have other approaches than using icons been considered? (and what was the pros/drawbacks of those)
On your screenshot the drives have the information in text about what kind of device it is, is this always the case?
Designers like to keep stuff as graphically clean as possible, so hence why I'm curious.

(In reply to comment #14)
> Created an attachment (id=108190) [edit]
> Screenshot of missing icons for locked and unlocked encrypted volumes
> 
> I'm not certain if this is the right bug to report this on, but the icons in
> 2.22 appear not to be falling back correctly, at least for
> encrypted/unencrypted drives.  Should I be filing a different bug for this, or
> is it simply that these icons haven't been added yet?  I'd be happy to provide
> any further information that might be of use, or run tests if this is
> unexpected behaviour.  Just let me know what I can do to help...  5:)
> 

This is because the encrypted icons are named incorrectly in the code, which should probably be implemented as emblems instead, so that the appropriate media/drive icons can be maintained across state changes. Your bug should probably be filed against gvfs or glib/gio. I am not sure which exactly.

Thanks Rodney, my issue is now bug 525153.  5:)

fwiw, these are the extra icons we ship in Fedora

  http://people.freedesktop.org/~david/gnome-icon-theme-extra-device-icons-3.tar.bz2

> This is because the encrypted icons are named incorrectly in the code,

No, it's just the way they are named right now, it's not a bug. Not optimal but good enough until we figure out a long term solution. 

What is a bug, howeer, is that g-i-t isn't shipping these icons.

> which
> should probably be implemented as emblems instead

No, that won't work as only one application, Nautilus, supports emblems. For example the panel also consume these names.

Long term, I'm unsure how to fix this. The fix may involve a GIcon subclass that allows the caller to composite several icons or some other way to emulate emblems in a way that is transparent to the application (e.g. the gdkpixbuf renderer automatically recognizes the GIcon emblem subclass).

The alternative is asking for three times the amount of icons, e.g. media-flash-cf-locked, media-flash-cf-unlocked and addition to media-flash-cf. Clearly that's not going to work.

So that's exactly why it's done the way it's done today. The choice of names is admittedly bad, I wish someone had responder earlier. But these names are shipping in gvfs 2.22 and that's not going to change. Thus, someone should release g-i-t 2.22.x with icons for these two extra names (drive-encrypted and media-encrypted). Suggest to use the icons mentioned in comment 18.

(I own replies to other people on this bug; will do that later tonight, have to run out now.)

> But these names are shipping in gvfs 2.22 and that's
> not going to change.

Actually gicmo suggests to add fallbacks from the gvfs code so things will work without these icons; that might work too.

(In reply to comment #19)
> > This is because the encrypted icons are named incorrectly in the code,
> 
> No, it's just the way they are named right now, it's not a bug. Not optimal but
> good enough until we figure out a long term solution. 
> 
> What is a bug, howeer, is that g-i-t isn't shipping these icons.

These functionality was added after the UI and String freezes for the 2.22 release cycle, and only 2 weeks before the final release was to be made, based on the date of the comment #6. Shipping code that depends on icons that don't exist, at that point in the cycle, is a bug in the code. Trying to place the blame on g-i-t won't get it fixed.

> > which
> > should probably be implemented as emblems instead
> 
> No, that won't work as only one application, Nautilus, supports emblems. For
> example the panel also consume these names.

Nautilus being the only thing that currently uses emblems, has no bearing on the fact of what would be the BEST implementation. And, given how things work, the best way to solve such a need, is emblems, so that the CORRECT device icon will have an encrypted emblem, rather than presenting a hard drive for every encrypted storage medium.

> The alternative is asking for three times the amount of icons, e.g.
> media-flash-cf-locked, media-flash-cf-unlocked and addition to media-flash-cf.
> Clearly that's not going to work.

It's not the only alternative. Presenting the devices as they would normally otherwise be presented, seems appropriate as well. Presumably there is some UI that appears when mounting a device, so that it can be decrypted and thus, the data shown to the user. I have a feeling that the user is going to see that dialog more than they are going to see the -encrypted icon under computer:///.

> So that's exactly why it's done the way it's done today. The choice of names is
> admittedly bad, I wish someone had responder earlier. But these names are
> shipping in gvfs 2.22 and that's not going to change. Thus, someone should
> release g-i-t 2.22.x with icons for these two extra names (drive-encrypted and
> media-encrypted). Suggest to use the icons mentioned in comment 18.

Demanding additions to the theme for the poor names isn't going to fix the problem. We shouldn't add icons for a brown bag release because of this, especially if the probability of removing them is fairly well. And I don't think "lock" and "unlocked" shows encrypted vs. decrypted very well. We already use the lock metaphor to mean other things, in the file manager, through emblems.
A better fix would be to change the code to not use these poorly picked names, and to present them in some other manner, perhaps with fallbacks (as mentioned in your last comment).

David: it seems like the url in #18 is broken. Where can I find these now?

What situation with gvfs icons for various usb-storage and memory-cards devices is in latest GNOME 2.28? gnome-icon-theme-2.28 doesn't have any icons, listed in
comment #6 :(

Are there any changes in the comment #6 listed final list of icons when combining with the already existing names in the icon naming specification (http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html) ?

Seems like gvfs is using the same icon for both mounted and unmounted states.
Is this the intended behavior? 
The previous behavior of using different icons for mount and unmount states was much more easier for differentiation of the drive state.

(In reply to comment #24)
> Seems like gvfs is using the same icon for both mounted and unmounted states.

You are not right, gvfs uses different icons for mounted and unmounted states, it seems you are using buggy icon theme, please test with standard gnome-icon-theme and you will see the difference ;)

drive-removable-media* icons are used for unmounted states, but in some themes (like humanity) drive-removable-media-usb and drive-harddisk-usb are symlinks, pointing to the same file:

ubuntu@ubuntu:/usr/share/icons$ ls -l Humanity/devices/48/drive-harddisk-usb.svg Humanity/devices/48/drive-removable-media-usb.svg 
 Humanity/devices/48/drive-harddisk-usb.svg -> gnome-dev-harddisk-usb.svg
 Humanity/devices/48/drive-removable-media-usb.svg -> gnome-dev-harddisk-usb.svg

(In reply to comment #25)
> (In reply to comment #24)
> > Seems like gvfs is using the same icon for both mounted and unmounted states.
> 
> You are not right, gvfs uses different icons for mounted and unmounted states,
> it seems you are using buggy icon theme, please test with standard
> gnome-icon-theme and you will see the difference ;)
> 

Could you show me a screenshot of this working[different icons for mount and unmount] with gnome icons? this will help us to fix the buggy theme. :/

(In reply to comment #22)
> David: it seems like the url in #18 is broken. Where can I find these now?

Yeah, the fd.o $HOME purge ate them :-/ - I've uploaded the latest version here

http://people.freedesktop.org/~david/gnome-icon-theme-extra-device-icons-5.tar.bz2

(In reply to comment #24)
> Seems like gvfs is using the same icon for both mounted and unmounted states.
> Is this the intended behavior? 
> The previous behavior of using different icons for mount and unmount states was
> much more easier for differentiation of the drive state.

As discussed on IRC: this is intentional - the icon is a not a good way to convey mounted/unmounted state. Instead, the desktop shell needs to provide this through hovering emblems, buttons or whatever. Right now only the Nautilus sidebar does this. We should fix the other bits of the desktop shell to do the same.

(In reply to comment #25)
> (In reply to comment #24)
> > Seems like gvfs is using the same icon for both mounted and unmounted states.
> 
> You are not right, gvfs uses different icons for mounted and unmounted states,
> it seems you are using buggy icon theme, please test with standard
> gnome-icon-theme and you will see the difference ;)

This is probably because you are using the HAL GVfs backend. It works different when using the gnome-disk-utility backend. The change was intentional - apart from comment 28. 

Another reason for this is we want drive-harddisk-usb (which looks like a harddisk with a USB emblem) to be used for devices w/o removable media (e.g. real spinning ATA harddisks in a USB enclosure) and drive-removable-media-usb (which looks like a removable drive with a USB emblem) to be used for devices with removable media (e.g. usb sticks).

(In reply to comment #28)
> (In reply to comment #24)
> > Seems like gvfs is using the same icon for both mounted and unmounted states.
> > Is this the intended behavior? 
> > The previous behavior of using different icons for mount and unmount states was
> > much more easier for differentiation of the drive state.
> 
> As discussed on IRC: this is intentional - the icon is a not a good way to
> convey mounted/unmounted state. Instead, the desktop shell needs to provide
> this through hovering emblems, buttons or whatever. Right now only the Nautilus
> sidebar does this. We should fix the other bits of the desktop shell to do the
> same.

As discussed on the irc: this seems like a regression[IMO] ;p
Why break something and ask for others to fix it at their end? 
Though i agree that the nautilus emblems or panel eject icons would be nice , 
why do this very small change when this huge load of icons are recognized by gvfs...

Commenting , Not to start the discussions again , but just ... ;)

There was some question about the location of the icons in question here.
The original location mentioned by David probably was a victim of one of the latest fd.o 'accidents'. 

I've now put the tarball up here: http://mclasen.fedorapeople.org/icons/
I have also put some extra print icons there that would be good to have. Both the GTK+ print dialog and system-config-printer make use of these when they are available.

Resetting assignee to default to avoid cookie-licking (see bug 744024).

Dobey: If you actively and realistically plan to work on this, please set yourself as assignee again so this ticket will be shown on top of your user page at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/page.cgi?id=describeuser.html

Thanks!

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