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Bug 119991 - It's not easy to find and start CD burning application
It's not easy to find and start CD burning application
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: nautilus-cd-burner
Classification: Deprecated
Component: cd-burner
unspecified
Other Linux
: Normal normal
: ---
Assigned To: Nautilus CD Burner Maintainers
Nautilus CD Burner Maintainers
: 129957 (view as bug list)
Depends on: 316410 508384 508385 508386 529867
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2003-08-15 23:23 UTC by Egle K.
Modified: 2008-12-16 15:54 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---


Attachments
screenshot of improved "Write files to a CD recorder" dialog with "Open CD Creator" button (25.22 KB, image/png)
2003-08-15 23:42 UTC, Egle K.
  Details
Proposed patch (29.52 KB, patch)
2004-01-31 11:56 UTC, Shakti
rejected Details | Review
Screenshot with the patch (31.71 KB, image/png)
2004-01-31 11:58 UTC, Shakti
  Details
Screenshot without the patch (26.31 KB, image/png)
2004-01-31 12:00 UTC, Shakti
  Details
Screenshot, improved according gnome HIG (29.51 KB, image/png)
2004-02-06 12:10 UTC, Mantas Kriaučiūnas
  Details

Description Egle K. 2003-08-15 23:23:22 UTC
There are usability problems with writing CDs in Gnome even n-c-b is
installed, because going to burn:/// or choosing "Go"->"CD Creator" from
menu are not easy to found for most users :(

I think menu entry (.desktop file) "CD burner" should be added in
Accessories or System tools menu categories. When user press on "CD burner" 
nautilus-cd-burner should be lauched.
Then if there are no files in burn:/// user will see dialog:
"You need to copy the files you want to write to CD to the CD Creator
window. Would you like to open it now?" and 2 buttons "Close" and "Open CD
Creator"
I think this is user-friendly, because from this dialog simple user got all
information how to write CD and then he can simply press "Open CD Creator"
button, copies the files into the CD Creator window and press "Write to CD"
button.
If there already are files in burn:/// location then nautilus-cd-burner
command displays "Write files to a CD recorder" dialog. I think this is ok,
but one more button "Open CD Creator" (or maybe it's can be named "Show
files to be written") should be added to this dialog. If user press this
button then CD Creator window (nautilus with burn:/// locaton) is
displayed. I'm attaching screenshot of improved "Write files to a CD
recorder" dialog to this bug.

Btw, when nautilus displays burn:/// location tittle of nautilus window
should be not burn:///, but "CD Creator", because simple users don't know
any burn:/// :)
Comment 1 Egle K. 2003-08-15 23:42:12 UTC
Created attachment 19254 [details]
screenshot of improved "Write files to a CD recorder" dialog with "Open CD Creator" button
Comment 2 Mantas Kriaučiūnas 2003-08-25 06:55:22 UTC
What developers think about making n-c-b more user-friendly ?
Comment 3 Telsa Gwynne 2004-01-09 10:04:12 UTC
I agree with everything said above. In addition, where are the docs?
Have they simply not been written yet? There's nothing in the 
Nautilus handbook I can see about this. 

Looking at the Gnome Docs Project doctable, I see that Eugene
has written them and they are in the User Guide. But I cannot
find this on Fedora Core 1. I have found only the section on 
removable media, which is about floppies, not CDs. 

The docs desperately need highlighting. And writing, potentially :) 

Comment 4 Eugene O'Connor 2004-01-12 09:29:43 UTC
Here is a link to the documentation on w.g.o:
http://www.gnome.org/learn/users-guide/latest/gosnautilus-475.html

Can you add a Help button to the dialog? The button needs to link to
the following:

File:   wgosnautilus.xml
SectID: gosnautilus-475

Comment 5 Bastien Nocera 2004-01-16 23:43:01 UTC
*** Bug 129957 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 6 Shakti 2004-01-31 11:56:26 UTC
Created attachment 23921 [details] [review]
Proposed patch
Comment 7 Shakti 2004-01-31 11:58:42 UTC
Created attachment 23922 [details]
Screenshot with the patch
Comment 8 Shakti 2004-01-31 12:00:10 UTC
Created attachment 23923 [details]
Screenshot without the patch
Comment 9 Mantas Kriaučiūnas 2004-02-06 12:08:19 UTC
It seems, that "Write files to CD" and "Cancel" buttons are not in the
right place in screenshot with the patch - in all gnome dialogs "OK",
"Save" or other affirmation buttons are at the right lower corner and
"Cancel" button is in the middle, look at Gnome HIG:
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/windows.html#dialog-boxes
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/windows.html#alert-button-order
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/windows.html#explicit-apply-figure

I'm attaching your screenshot, changed with GIMP, please edit your
patch :)

Btw, I think we could use text "Write to CD" instead of "Write files
to CD", because now this button is very wide. Also I guess, that it's
more user-friendly to see text "Show files" instead of "Open CD
Creator" on the button.

I have one more idea about "Show files" ("Open CD Creator") button -
this button provides an alternative action and according to Gnome HIG
this button has to be located left to "Cancel" button, or to
affirmative button if "Cancel" does not present:
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/windows.html#alert-button-order

I think, that "Cancel" button is not needed, because "Show Files"
button ("Open CD Creator") will do almost the same action - will close
"Write files to CD" dialog and open nautilus with 'burn:/' location
displayed if nautilus with 'burn:/' isn't already opened.

Also don't forget to include a .desktop file for nautilus-cd-burner -
there is a patch for this, look at bug 129957
Comment 10 Mantas Kriaučiūnas 2004-02-06 12:10:37 UTC
Created attachment 24134 [details]
Screenshot, improved according gnome HIG
Comment 11 Alexander Larsson 2004-02-09 12:13:30 UTC
I don't agree with these changes (except for the help button).
Nautilus-cd-burner is not meant to be used as a stand-along
application (it *especially* should not have a desktop file). Its
meant to be integrated with the file manager the same way copying a
file is, not something you hunt for in the menu and launch.

Now, I can agree that its a bit hard to find, but turning it into a
bad cd burning application does not help. We need to work on true
integration with the file manager. Probably something involving
clicking on the cd writer icon in the Computer location when there is
a blank CD in it. Of course, this has various issues that need to be
considered, and will probably have to wait until 2.7.
Comment 12 Mantas Kriaučiūnas 2004-08-18 14:24:52 UTC
Now Nautilus adn n-c-b is very near to 2.8, but still it's very hard to find how
to copy files to CD :(
N-C-B *really* needs menu entry, maybe not in Applications menu, but in Actions
menu, named "Copy files to CD".
Comment 13 Mantas Kriaučiūnas 2004-08-18 15:44:48 UTC
Btw, nautilus in browsing mode (--browser option) isn't a stand-along
application too, but it has a menu entry (.desktop file), named "Browse
Filesystem" in Applications menu.
Also there is another menu entry for nautilus, named "Network Servers", which
opens nautilus with network: location, this also isn't a stand-along application.

So, why you can't add a menu entry, which opens nautilus with burn: location or
starts nautilus-cd-burner ? We also should replace "Cancel" button with "Show
files" ("Open CD Creator") button, because now it's pretty hard to find how to
remove/add more files to CD if you choose File->Write to CD and then close
nautilus with burn: location.
"Show Files" button ("Open CD Creator") should do almost the same action like
"Cancel" - it should close "Write files to CD" dialog and open nautilus with
'burn:/' location displayed if nautilus with 'burn:/' isn't already opened.
Comment 14 William Jon McCann 2005-04-12 23:00:46 UTC
This bug is quite out of date.  Marking as won't fix.
Comment 15 Mantas Kriaučiūnas 2005-04-13 08:05:43 UTC
Why won't fix ? GNOME Users don't find how to burn CD in GNOME with
nautilus-cd-burner installed, but you make this bug as wontfix instead of fixing :(

Look at users' forums, mailing lists or web pages, for example:

http://www.ilug-cal.org/GNOME_2_4.html

 (...) But I was disappointed with the nautilus cd burner. It is a really great
feature, but somehow, it is not at all visible. I had to manually type in
"burn://" in the address bar to get to the burn queue. There should be something
in the main menu or somewhere prominent which should take users to this
location. Also, a file menu item called "Copy to CD Creator" or somethings like
that should be there, similar to the "Add to archive" option. Later I discovered
that there was a link to CD Creator in Nautilus Menu -> Go -> CD Creator, but it
is still, IMHO, not prominent enough.(...)


http://www.userinstinct.com/viewpost.php?postid=gnome26review&page=10

Burn a data backup CD
    GNOME 2.6 provides this capability in the nautilus cd burner, but it is not
discoverable in the Applications menu.


Do you think it's a good decision to close this bug with resolution wontfix ?

If there are "Places" menu in GNOME panel, why CD/DVD Creator isn't included in
this menu, while it's in Nautilus "Places" menu?
Comment 16 William Jon McCann 2005-04-13 09:59:55 UTC
Mantas, please file a bug against the gnome-panel or nautilus components if you
would like to change the menus.  There is really no action required for
nautilus-cd-burner regardless.
Comment 17 Mantas Kriaučiūnas 2005-04-13 11:47:39 UTC
Why you can't move this bug to the gnome-panel or nautilus component ?
Comment 18 Valent Turkovic 2007-12-31 12:26:08 UTC
Hi, I see this bug is opened in 2003 and last comment was in 2005... but this issue stil isn't resolved.

Put any new user in front of fresh Gnome (let's say Fedora 8 Live CD) desktop and ask them to burn some files to CD or DVD - any watch them as they wiggle
unpleasantly as they can't find any burning app under gnome desktop.

Puting a link for nautils burner under "Places / CD - DVD Recoder"
is the last place new users search for an app to burn some files of to CD or DVD. 

There should be a link for "CD Recoder" placed somewhere under "Applications"
menu and not only in "Places" menu.

Thank you.
Comment 19 Ross Burton 2007-12-31 16:55:49 UTC
When this bug was filed, there was no entry for CD/DVD Creator under Places (see comment 7).

IMHO, the user would first insert a blank DVD which would cause the DVD creator pops up automatically.  It's not exactly hidden under Places, the title CD/DVD Creator is quite clear.
Comment 20 Valent Turkovic 2008-01-01 14:11:04 UTC
I see other user behaviour; they first try to find burning app, and when they start is an prepare files for burning put empty CD/DVD at the end of the process and now at the begining.

Also they look and expect burning application to be under "Applications" menue, so they thing that Fedora 8 Gnome desktop (in my example) doesn't have a burning application.
Comment 21 Valent Turkovic 2008-01-01 14:12:05 UTC
Why is Nautilus Burning under Places? What is the reason, can somebody please explain it?

Thank you.
Comment 22 Ross Burton 2008-01-01 14:41:32 UTC
Why should CD burning be a different application?  It's just the task of moving files from one place to another, which means you use the file manager.
Comment 23 Valent Turkovic 2008-01-01 15:54:27 UTC
I have seen users that expect to find a burning application in "Application" menue and in the name of usability Gnome should make user experience easier, and to me personally that makes more sense than the current place in "Places" menu. 

It doesn't matter if technically you are right, less technical users don't think like you and they know that in order to do some tasks on their desktops they need applications that enable them to do what they need.

I maybe am wrong but I believe that "moving files from one place to another" means nothing to new users coming to Gnome and linux in general.

Why internet browser isn't in places menue? It also is used for moving files from one place to other. This is not the best comparison but I could not think of a better one in few seconds time.
Comment 24 André Klapper 2008-01-02 09:34:29 UTC
i wonder if we have any usability test data from sun or novell (http://www.betterdesktop.org) about this, if we tell a new user "burn your home stuff to a cd".
i can definitely understand valent's point of view. we make it hard for those user types that first start the burning app and later insert the blank cd. i know some people working like this.
Comment 25 Bastien Nocera 2008-01-09 22:12:51 UTC
My take would be:
1. remove CD/DVD creator from the Places menu
2. add a call to "nautilus -n --no-desktop --browser burn:///" in a .desktop file in the system tools menu
3. make "write to disc" having an icon
4. have "instructions" in the main nautilus window, such as "drop files to write to disc here"
Comment 26 Bastien Nocera 2008-01-09 22:21:23 UTC
Bugs filed. The only hard one is 4), let's wait and see what the nautilus developers reckon.
Comment 27 Valent Turkovic 2008-01-10 15:15:31 UTC
great!
Comment 28 Valent Turkovic 2008-03-17 09:31:52 UTC
Hi guys!

Fedora 8 and Ubuntu 8.4 are soon to be released, any chance this bug gets in before they get released?
Comment 29 Valent Turkovic 2008-03-17 09:33:05 UTC
I ment Fedora 9 :)
Comment 30 Kjartan Maraas 2008-03-18 15:36:47 UTC
This probably can't be done in GNOME 2.22.x since it affects screenshots, translations and documentation. We are also feature frozen for the stable branch and I guess this would count as a feature at least in the sense that it needs to be documented.

I tried opening a nautilus window like described above and I see a very real potential that the user will be just as confused after having clicked away from burn:/// to select files to write to the CD. How to we keep them from doing that? They then have to know that they should open the "Go"!? menu in the nautilus window to be able to go back to where they can write the files. Isn't this just as confusing as having the menu entry under Places in the first place?
Comment 31 Valent Turkovic 2008-03-19 09:17:56 UTC
I haven't even thought about that, and I tried navigating from burn:/// and you are right, that is very confusing.
Comment 32 Bastien Nocera 2008-04-25 10:48:36 UTC
(In reply to comment #31)
> I haven't even thought about that, and I tried navigating from burn:/// and you
> are right, that is very confusing.

Yep, filed bug 529864 about this. If it's not fixed, we could go for a spatial window instead, which would avoid the user losing the location whilst browsing for files to add.

I also missed bug 529867 about the .desktop file addition.
Comment 33 Valent Turkovic 2008-04-28 07:59:04 UTC
Is there a reason why not to abandon nautilus burning and go with Brasero as default Gnome burning application?

If you look at statistics:
http://online.gnome.org/applications?category=sound_and_video

More people use k3b but I guess that is out of the question ;)
Comment 34 André Klapper 2008-04-28 08:18:38 UTC
@Valent: It's up to the Brasero maintainers to apply for official inclusion into the GNOME Desktop. They are free to do so.
Comment 35 Luis Medinas 2008-04-29 15:54:14 UTC
This is not a forum or a mailing list but brasero is intented to be an easy and full burning "suite" not like n-c-b that just do his job. We didn't propose it because we need more developers/contributors to get the releases ready in time for gnome.
Comment 36 Valent Turkovic 2008-06-04 07:17:14 UTC
@ Kjartan Maraas
Are there any plans to fix this issue beyond Gnome 2.22 ?

Cheers,
Valent.
Comment 37 Valent Turkovic 2008-09-04 06:07:15 UTC
Last time I checked with Brassero devels they said that they will propose that Brassero comes by default in Gnome. Has this happened yet?

Cheers,
Valent.
Comment 38 André Klapper 2008-09-04 10:27:50 UTC
No, feel free to ask the Brasero developers for their plans.
Comment 39 Bastien Nocera 2008-12-16 15:54:24 UTC
All done in SVN trunk for 2.26, closing.