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Bug 105502 - s/Roll Up/Show Titlebar Only
s/Roll Up/Show Titlebar Only
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: metacity
Classification: Other
Component: general
unspecified
Other All
: Normal normal
: future
Assigned To: Metacity maintainers list
Metacity maintainers list
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2003-02-07 16:47 UTC by Eugene O'Connor
Modified: 2004-12-22 21:47 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Eugene O'Connor 2003-02-07 16:47:25 UTC
and s/Unroll/Show Full Window

The menu items Roll Up and Unroll do not describe what this function does.
There is no real "rolling" involved. These menu items retain the original
shade metaphor. The suggested replacements above describe what this
function actually does.

These menu items are also present in the Window List applet.
Comment 1 Havoc Pennington 2003-02-25 22:40:50 UTC
Seth did you do any user testing on this?

Comment 2 Seth Nickell 2003-02-27 03:43:09 UTC
Nope.
Comment 3 Eugene O'Connor 2003-03-04 20:01:25 UTC
If this change is made, as well as the Window List applet, we'll also 
need to modify the Windows preference tool. "Roll up" is one of the 
options in the "Double-click titlebar to perform this action" drop-
down list. 
Comment 4 Rob Adams 2003-03-05 04:44:55 UTC
oh that's not the half of it.  You'd also have to update all the
translations...

fun fun fun!
Comment 5 Calum Benson 2003-03-25 18:01:08 UTC
To be fair, some sort of animation to show the window 'rolling' and
'unrolling', similar to the one we already have for 'minimizing',
would probably reinforce Seth's choice of wording and give the user a
big clue as to what was actually happening here (it's a bit of a shock
the first time you come across it otherwise).  Be prepared for another
lengthy debate like the one in #95777 and elsewhere if we did that
though :)
Comment 6 Havoc Pennington 2003-03-25 19:50:23 UTC
Enlightenment had a pretty good animation of this I think.

Comment 7 Eugene O'Connor 2003-03-26 09:54:00 UTC
Are we redesigning the UI to fit the menu item text?! Even with the
animation Calum suggested, I think users would still have trouble
understanding Roll Up and Roll Down. 

The menu item text I suggested describes what actually happens, not
the style in which it happens. I think that changing the menu item
text would provide users with a clear description of what the menu
does, and it also has the benefit of being a (AFAIK) simple solution
to implement.
Comment 8 Patrick Costello 2003-03-26 10:20:25 UTC
I don't think anyone is trying to redesign the UI to fit the menu
item, rather that the functionality that they wanted to convey in the
first place was that the window is still present but hidden within the
visible titlebar. 

This really is a Usability issue, although with a linguistics slant.
Strictly speaking Eugene's suggestion "Show Titlebar Only" is correct,
but lacks the pizzazz of "Roll Up". Also, "Roll Up" does suggest that
the window is still present, just "rolled up". On the other hand "Show
Titlebar Only" has a hint of separation about it, as if the window has
somehow gone somewhere else. 

If we have evidence that "Roll Up" is indeed understood by users, and
if the perceived action suggests rolling up, then "Roll Up" might be
acceptable. However, in the absence of those pieces of the puzzle,
Eugene's suggestion is the most accurate right now. 
Comment 9 Christian Neumair 2003-04-29 12:59:42 UTC
Patrick: I've first read the terms "Roll Up" and "Unroll" in GNOME. I
instantly knew what it was referring to and still find it pretty nice
as it's very pictographic.
I vote for leaving it as-is.

regs,
 Chris
Comment 10 Patrick Costello 2003-04-29 13:42:57 UTC
Chris: I suspect that your experience is fairly normal. However, even 
if you intuitively grasp what has happened, there still remains a 
problem of definition. When the documentation team came to look at 
the terms "Roll Up" and "Unroll", we had some difficulty squaring the 
terms with the actual functionality.

Frankly, I must say that Calum's suggestion rather appeals to me - in 
other words rather than changing the terms, we make sure that the 
>>perceived<< functionality accurately matches the terms. Of course, 
I do not know what effort this would require from an engineering 
perspective. 

Pat
Comment 11 Eugene O'Connor 2003-04-29 16:09:48 UTC
So we have two choices:

1. Change the functionality to match the current menu items.
2. Change the menu items to match the current functionality.

Is there much engineering effort required to implement choice 1? Would
the rollup/rolldown animation have a significant impact on
performance? Might the animation end up as a GConf key?

Personally I favor choice 2. I feel that a rollup/rolldown animation
is unnecessary. And I think the proposed changes to the menu items
describe the current behavior accurately and unambiguously.
Comment 12 Rob Adams 2003-04-29 16:41:15 UTC
We could do an outline animation for the rollup similar to that for
minimizing with essentially zero effort.  But honestly if the user
can't tell that the window is now just a titlebar after doing roll up
I don't think that anything short of a miracle will help him figure it
out.
Comment 13 Patrick Costello 2003-04-30 10:07:54 UTC
Eugene - I'm going to have to break rank with you on this one. I do 
believe that if the action the user requests from a menu is 
accurately reflected in the perceived result, then we have done our 
job properly, from the language perspective, usability perspective 
and engineering perspective. A skimpy outline animation would be 
sufficient to produce an impression of Rolling Up. So I vote to keep 
the rolling metaphor in the menu language, and also include the 
metaphor in the functionality. 

Pat
Comment 14 Christian Neumair 2003-04-30 15:18:30 UTC
This functionality is already in metacity HEAD.
Havoc def'ed out the mentioned section in src/windows.c:1888, though:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C32412564
Just remove "if 0" and it's "endif" to see a lovely shade effect when
rolling up.

Havoc: CCing you so that you can explain us why you did so.
I just see one problem at the moment:
If the window is very large the effect doesn't look pretty.

regs,
 Chris
Comment 15 Havoc Pennington 2003-09-25 02:39:09 UTC
Basically the animation is turned off because it was ugly. It may have
also had redraw problems.

I just filed bug #123162 which we may want to consider rather than the
rename here.

I guess my net feeling on the rename is just that it seems a little
longer and more pedantic, "less friendly" on some level. But if there
were any consensus to change it I wouldn't stand in the way.
Comment 16 Rob Adams 2004-01-10 21:55:07 UTC
the point is now moot.  "Roll Up" is no longer in the window menu.
Comment 17 Rob Adams 2004-01-10 21:55:29 UTC
the point is now moot.  "Roll Up" is no longer in the window menu.