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Bug 93071 - Needs revision of the ellipsis recommendation
Needs revision of the ellipsis recommendation
Status: RESOLVED INVALID
Product: gnome-devel-docs
Classification: Applications
Component: hig
unspecified
Other other
: Normal normal
: ---
Assigned To: HIG Maintainers
HIG Maintainers
Depends on:
Blocks: 92226
 
 
Reported: 2002-09-11 20:01 UTC by Yanko Kaneti
Modified: 2020-12-04 18:20 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Yanko Kaneti 2002-09-11 20:01:31 UTC
Following this
(http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2002-September/msg00008.html)
thread on usability@gnome.org (which ends unconclusively i.e. no real
answer/decision from any of the maintainers of the HIG)

I am asking you to revise the current recommendation to something
resembling the Apple Human Interface Guidelines take on this matter
(http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Essentials/AquaHIGuidelines/AHIGMenus/Using_Ellip_and_Buttons.html)

Namely recommend ellipses for items bringing up settings dialogs.
(Options, Preferences, Set <something>)

Some clear examples as the ones found in the Apple HIG would also help I guess.
For instance the current state of the Search menu in gedit ("Find","Find
Again","Replace",<separator>,"Goto line") /all without ellipsis/ although
presumably HIG compliant and "certified" by a usability aware person 
clearly show some misunderstanding of even the current recommendataion.

imho the proper form of this menu wrt ellipses should be ("Find...","Find
Again","Replace...",<separator>,"Goto line...")
Comment 1 Murray Cumming 2002-12-10 14:04:11 UTC
That developer.apple.com URL doesn't work. Do you have a new one?

I think you are saying that all menu items that result in a dialog box
being opened should end in "...". E.g. gedit might have "Find ...".
This is normal on the Mac, but I don't know what advantage it has.
Comment 2 Yanko Kaneti 2002-12-10 22:41:28 UTC
the Mac link has moved to here
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Essentials/AquaHIGuidelines/AHIGMenus/_Using_Elli_and_Buttons.html

lets refrain from "on menutiem that pops ANY kind of dialog" but
surely I think we should follow a guideline that puts ellipses on
every menutiem of the   Options, Preferences... type. Just like the
apple guide says

The advantages I tried to explain in the thread on the mailing list, 
a menuitem with ellipsis "feel safe" i.e. its presumed no immeadiate
(and embarrasing) action would be performed without the user knowing
quite exactly what he is doing.

Another "advantage" for the Options, Preferences type of menus having
ellipses would be that (by my estimate) it would make it consistent
with virtualy every desktop app in existance.  I personally haven't
seen a single app on any platform that I've used where
"Preferences..." or "Options..." does not have an ellipsis. 
Comment 3 Murray Cumming 2002-12-24 01:24:04 UTC
I don't think that the Apple page defines it very clearly, not it's
not too bad. I don't think people will do this unless they know
exactly when to do it.

I don't see how this makes the user feel safer - if the user must give
additional input then he has a chance to cancel anyway.

I don't think it's used very consistently on Windows, though I do
remember it clearly from Mac System 7.

This will probably be a new idea to people, so we need to ask the
developers if they like it. Maybe we should ask after 2.2.
Comment 4 Yanko Kaneti 2002-12-24 17:41:27 UTC
> I don't see how this makes the user feel safer - if the user must give
> additional input then he has a chance to cancel anyway.

I dont follow you here. My argument was about the user "feeling
unsafe" with a menuitem _without_ ellipsis and "feeling safe" with a
menuitem with one.

> This will probably be a new idea to people

I contest that the way its _currently_ advised in the HIG would be new
and awkward to the people getting familiar with the platform.
Comment 5 Murray Cumming 2003-04-04 11:11:12 UTC
> My argument was about the user "feeling
> unsafe" with a menuitem _without_ ellipsis and "feeling safe" with a
> menuitem with one.

Good point.

But why would people feel unsafe when seleting "Preferences" or
"Options" menu item? 

I do kind of like the "..." idea from my Mac days but we probably need
to justify it with real examples.
Comment 6 Yanko Kaneti 2003-04-04 21:31:56 UTC
  Granted the argument about the elipses on preferences/options/etc..
 is more about the consistency than the "uncertainty" issue. Most
people will probably find and immediately use the said menuitem even
if it looks odd at first without ellipsis.
Comment 7 Murray Cumming 2003-05-31 15:10:36 UTC
So, I'll probably close this bug unless someone can give a real-world
example that's a problem.