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Bug 81222 - Figure out the common usage modes (see comment 14)
Figure out the common usage modes (see comment 14)
Status: RESOLVED OBSOLETE
Product: libwnck
Classification: Core
Component: tasklist
unspecified
Other other
: Normal normal
: ---
Assigned To: libwnck maintainers
libwnck maintainers
Depends on:
Blocks: 84411 91655 155905
 
 
Reported: 2002-05-09 09:32 UTC by Aschwin van der Woude
Modified: 2018-01-24 13:12 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Aschwin van der Woude 2002-05-09 09:32:29 UTC
When I iconify a window it won't show in the task-list of another workspace.
I would expect the option 'restoring minimized windows' with the setting
'Restore to current workspace' to have this behaviour.

If the setting 'restore to native workspace' is selected it could be the
behaviour it has now, to only show iconified windows in the task-list on
the workspace where it was iconified.

See also bug #80951 for my comments on how I use this feature together with
what is described in that bug-report.
Comment 1 Aschwin van der Woude 2002-05-09 09:35:17 UTC
Oops I meant bug #79500 instead of #80951
Comment 2 Aschwin van der Woude 2002-05-09 14:55:14 UTC
Here the one-liner fix to implement this behaviour :

diff -ru libwnck-0.9-orig/libwnck/tasklist.c
libwnck-0.9/libwnck/tasklist.c
--- libwnck-0.9-orig/libwnck/tasklist.c	Thu May  9 17:45:39 2002
+++ libwnck-0.9/libwnck/tasklist.c	Thu May  9 17:57:50 2002
@@ -1067,7 +1067,9 @@
 
       state = wnck_window_get_state (win);
       if ((state & WNCK_WINDOW_STATE_SKIP_TASKLIST) == 0 &&
-
  (tasklist->priv->include_all_workspaces ||
+
  ((tasklist->priv->switch_workspace_on_unminimize &&
+
    (state & WNCK_WINDOW_STATE_MINIMIZED)) ||
+
   tasklist->priv->include_all_workspaces ||
 	   active_workspace == NULL ||
 	   wnck_window_is_on_workspace (win, active_workspace)))
 	{
Comment 3 Aschwin van der Woude 2002-05-09 15:01:53 UTC
I leave it up to someone else to integrate this fix into cvs, and set
the status of this bug-report to FIXED.

BTW this patch is against libwnck-0.9

With this fix the minimized windows are allways show in the task-list
if  the preference 'restore to current workspace' is set.
If this preference is set to 'restore to native workspace' it only
shows the minized windows for the workspace where the window was
minimized.

BTW2 This makes me very happy since it is my first bug-fix I sent in
for gnome. :-) (I have been lurking for far too long)
Comment 4 Luis Villa 2002-05-15 22:04:27 UTC
Reassigning to libwnck. Havoc: is this bug? feature? crack option?
Comment 5 Havoc Pennington 2002-05-15 23:02:54 UTC
I also have a patch in my inbox to add "show only minimized windows" 
as a setting.

I guess it's true that "unminimize windows on current space" is only
useful if you show minimized windows on all spaces. 

I'm a bit worried users will think it's a bug if they choose "show
only windows on current workspace" and still get minimized windows
from other spaces.
Comment 6 Aschwin van der Woude 2002-05-16 17:39:07 UTC
In my opinion the current settings are perfect as they are (version
1.0 of window-list)
Adding an option to allways display minimized windows seems useless to
me. 

Where is the option "show only windows on current desktop"?
Comment 7 Havoc Pennington 2002-05-16 18:09:26 UTC
The "only display minimized windows" setting is intended to use the
window list like traditional UNIX icons, i.e. the app is either an
icon or a window but not both.

The props dialog has "Show windows from current workspace"
Comment 8 Aschwin van der Woude 2002-05-16 18:21:32 UTC
Ah yes, how could I have missed it. :o/

I don't really grasp 'traditional Unix icons', you mean like it was in
Win3.1 and its predessors?

What would be the usefullness of this feature, and what does it have
to do with the window-list?

This seems something different then the issue this bug-report (and its
fix) talks about.
Comment 9 Aschwin van der Woude 2002-07-07 08:46:20 UTC
What can I do to get this fix included into the development tree??
Comment 10 Havoc Pennington 2002-07-07 14:10:48 UTC
I think someone needs to step back and sort out the various ways the
window list can be used and decide which make sense and adjust the 
prefs accordingly. I don't feel like I have a good grasp of it.
Comment 11 Havoc Pennington 2002-09-16 21:11:47 UTC
This is a good usability project for someone to think through.</hint>
Comment 12 Havoc Pennington 2002-09-21 15:18:57 UTC
Should mop up these settings for 2.2

see also #84411
Comment 13 Aschwin van der Woude 2002-11-09 14:10:48 UTC
For me it means having to move the mouse a shorter distance. It is
faster to click a window/task in the window-list to minimize, click on
another workspace in the workspace-switcher and click the minimized
task in the Window-list to unminimize it.
The current way is to find the corner of the window-involved and click
open the menu and select the workspace.
Off course the current way is faster with one window, but not with
several. For instance when having several terminal-windows I want to
move to a new work-space.
Comment 14 Havoc Pennington 2003-04-10 03:32:56 UTC
More detail on what this bug is blocking on, I sent someone 
the following in private mail:

My comment in bugzilla is:
                                                                     
                                  
  I think someone needs to step back and sort out the various ways the
  window list can be used and decide which make sense and adjust the
  prefs accordingly. I don't feel like I have a good grasp of it.
                                                                     
                                  
What I mean by that is:
                                                                     
                                  
  If we add more toggle buttons to the prefs, so we have N toggle
  buttons, then we have 2^N or something combinations of settings.
                                                                     
                                  
  What I want to know is, which of those combinations are useful.
                                                                     
                                  
  In other words, how many big picture different "usage modes"
  are there for the task list.
                                                                     
                                  
  This is an essential step to understanding how we could simplify or
  make more useful the settings, and to understanding why each usage
  mode is useful and whether we could create a usage mode combining
  the best of all worlds.
                                                                     
                                  
  It also allows us to understand whether the usage modes have
  interactions with other desktop GUI decisions (if so, then
  the usage modes are potentially going to cause problems,
  because then you have to make those other GUI decisions configurable
  also, and you get cascading combinatoric preferences hell).
                                                                     
                                  
  So basically, I would like someone to list:
    - all the settings that exist now
    - the various settings that have been proposed
    - enumerate each combination of those (possibly lumping
      some combinations together)
    - write down which combinations are useful "modes," and why,
      and which combinations are useless
    - from this see which settings are "standalone" and which
      interact to create "modes" of tasklist usage

If we do this, I think we will understand the problem a bit better,
and be in a position to guess at the pros and cons of adding each
setting. I would not be surprised if it turns out that some of the
settings we don't have are more useful than some of the ones we do
have.
                                                                     
                                  
Comment 15 Kjartan Maraas 2004-04-18 20:51:10 UTC
Has any work on integrating havoc's comments into the patch been done?
Comment 16 Elijah Newren 2005-01-06 19:03:10 UTC
Retitling, to reflect what needs to be done first (and so when I reference this
in other bugs it's more clear to others what I mean).
Comment 17 Elijah Newren 2005-01-06 19:08:15 UTC
Bug 163135 had a different request which conflicts with both the patch in this
bug and the "show only minimzed windows" one from bug 84411; it basically came
from a (really strange, IMO) usage case where the window list was predominantly
used for active windows only.  ...just something else to keep in mind when
writing up the usage modes.
Comment 18 Christopher Beland 2005-01-08 14:23:15 UTC
Bug 163135 has been marked as a duplicate of bug 91655, which covers treatment
of minimized windows in general.
Comment 19 Christopher Beland 2005-01-08 19:10:29 UTC
This looks like it has been sitting around for a while, so I'll try to
oblige Havoc Pennington's request...

---

CHOICE: GROUPING

Consider this following choice:

 - ALWAYS GROUP/NEVER GROUP/SOMETIMES GROUP windows in list in window list

I think this should be streamlined by eliminating the "ALWAYS GROUP"
option.  The "SOMETIMES GROUP" option should Just Work.  I think that
either 1.) there will be enough room on the list to display all of the
available windows, period, and it's pointless to group (but sorting by
class would be very helpful) or 2.) there's not, and grouping should
be turned on.

On the Size tab of Window List preferences, users can specify the
minimum and maximum size for individual window-buttons in the list
(though it currently seems to be somewhat broken, and it seems the
minimum refers to individual windows but the maximum to the list as a
whole).  The minimum size here should definitely trigger the grouping
mechanism (it currently does not).  Arguably, grouping should start
even earlier if ungrouping would force any buttons to be smaller than
their full titles.

Personally, I wouldn't be sad if the NEVER GROUP option went away
entirely, given how unusable the window list becomes when it gets
crowded.  Are there any advocates for keeping it?

---

CHOICES: ICONS AND MINIMIZED ONLY

 - Show ICON ONLY/TEXT+ICON for open windows
 - Show ICON ONLY/TEXT+ICON for minimized windows
 - Show ALL/MINIMIZED windows in window list

There is also the question of whether the text for minimized windows,
if shown, should be bracketed, italicized, bolded, on a different
background color, etc, which is entirely orthogonal and should be
discussed under Bug 91655.

For this set of choices, we can enumerate the following permutations:

A.) Show all windows with text
B.) Show minimized windows only, with text
C.) Show all windows, icon only.
D.) Show minimized windows only, icon only
E.) Show open windows with text, minimized as icon only
F.) Show open windows icon only, minimized with text

A is what is currently hard-wired into Gnome, and is also the
Windows default (if not also hard-wired).

D is what MacOS X does, but the icons are actually thumbnails of the
windows with the application icon superimposed in a corner.

I think E is what joh@gmx.net is proposing.

Some people don't seem to prefer to find their windows by
icon-plus-tooltip, to save space.  Other people seem to envision the
window list as a place where only minimized windows should go, instead
of a universal list. Given that, there's probably a reasonable market
for both "minimized windows only" and "icons not text".  Certain
combinations (like say, F) might be quite rare, though.

Those most concerned about Preference Proliferation would say that we
should have only one option, and if so, I think that should be A.

A reasonable compromise might be to say that A and D are polar
opposites, with respect to space usage, and that those two and only
those two should be allowed.  This would probably make MacOS X fans
happy.  Doing minimized window thumbnails would certainly look cool
and may help users find their windows faster, but it sounds
technically involved and not particularly space-efficient.

---

GROUPING/ICONIFICATION INTERACTION

Note that icon-only entries, because they are so space-efficient,
probably don't need to be grouped.  So a scheme that only uses icons
doesn't need to worry about grouping, which eliminates some
permutations.  For example, If we were to allow only A and D, we'd
have A+GROUPING, A-NO_GROUPING, and D.

An entirely different way of looking at the icon-only approach is as
an alternative fallback to grouping.  At a certain threshold of
crowdedness, some or all windows would change from being text+icon to
icon only.  Fans of the icon-only approach could simply allocate a
small area for the window list, and thus trigger iconification all or
most of the time.  This would leave the only preference as "When low
on space: KEEP TITLES AND GROUP / ICONIFY".  I don't think I like this
idea very much.  But perhaps we can settle on one or two Just Works
compromises that would please almost everyone.

---

CHOICES: MULTIPLE WORKSPACES

The previous choices all involved desktops with only a single
workspace.  This last set encompasses the issues I think are uniquely
related to multiple workspaces:

 - Restore windows to CURRENT/NATIVE workspace
 - Show windows from CURRENT/ALL workspaces
 - Show OPEN+MIN/MINIMIZED windows in window list

Keep in mind that windows can always be moved across workspaces with
the pull-down menu provided by the window manager (at least in
Metacity here under Fedora Core 3), or by DnD inside the Workplace
Switcher applet.

Possibilities...

1.) Each workspace is completely isolated from all others.  Workspace
    Switcher must be used to switch between them.  

Firm choice:
 - Show windows from CURRENT workspace only
Not meaningful:
 - Restore windows to CURRENT/NATIVE workspace

All other choices, including "Show OPEN+MIN/MINIMIZED windows in window
list" essentially collapse to what has already been discussed.


2.) The window list operates as a universal holder for MINIMIZED
    windows only.  Workspace Switcher must be used to switch
    workspaces.

Choices:
 - Restore windows to CURRENT workspace
 - Show windows from ALL workspaces
 - Show MINIMIZED windows only in window list


3.) The window list is used to navigate workspaces but not move
    windows.  Workspace Switcher is only needed when one wants to
    start a new application on a completely new workspace, but might
    be used at other times, too.

Choices:
 - Show windows from ALL workspaces
 - Restore windows to NATIVE workspace
   * And jump to that workspace
 - Show OPEN+MIN windows in window list


4.) The window list is used to bring windows to the current workspace
    or to access any window in the current workspace.  Workspace
    Switcher must be used to change workspaces.

Choices:
 - Restore windows to CURRENT workspace
 - Show windows from ALL workspaces
 - Show OPEN+MIN windows in window list


5.) The window list shows all minimized applications, but when
    activated, they always return to their native workspace.
    Workspace Switcher must be used to switch workspaces.

Choices:
 - Restore windows to NATIVE workspace
 - Show windows from ALL workspaces
 - Show MINIMIZED windows in window list

--

I find 4 and especially 5 to be confused.  1 is quintessential and is
the current default (for Fedora Core 3, at least).  2 is kinda neat.
3 makes sense.  Personally, I don't use workspaces.  If I did, I'd
probably pick 1; maybe if I was constantly misplacing windows, I'd
switch to 3.  Novice users could easily become confused by multiple
workspaces, especially given a default of 1, because they could end up
in situations where they cannot see the window they are looking for,
and don't know what to do to get it back.  Workspaces are probably a
handy feature for folks who have multiple domains of computer work or
multiple threads of activity, though, so they should be available in
one form or another, even if they are not set up by default.

Note that the preferences about what windows to show in the window
list and where un-minimized windows end up are accessed from the
Window List applet, but all other workspace-related preferences are
accessed from Workspace Switcher.  This seems mildly confusing.  One
would think they should at least be cross-referenced.

---

So, there you have it.  (Hopefully I haven't missed any relevant
cases.) I guess now we need to decide which permutations should be the
default, which are supported alternatives, which are disallowed, and
which might be allowed to sneak in as a side effect of allowing
others, if any.  Not sure if this is the sort of decision that is
normally made on a UI mailing list, or after some formal usability
testing, or what.

-- Beland
Comment 20 Vincent Untz 2006-01-22 22:22:22 UTC
Removing GNOME2.x target milestone for these bugs since this milestone hardly makes sense now.
Comment 21 GNOME Infrastructure Team 2018-01-24 13:12:48 UTC
-- GitLab Migration Automatic Message --

This bug has been migrated to GNOME's GitLab instance and has been closed from further activity.

You can subscribe and participate further through the new bug through this link to our GitLab instance: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libwnck/issues/7.