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Bug 664748 - Move Tool doesn't move
Move Tool doesn't move
Product: GIMP
Classification: Other
Component: Tools
git master
Other All
: Normal normal
: 3.0
Assigned To: GIMP Bugs
Depends on:
Reported: 2011-11-24 17:50 UTC by Sodhi, Cedric
Modified: 2018-05-24 13:06 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---

Description Sodhi, Cedric 2011-11-24 17:50:38 UTC
The Rotate Tool rotates,the Scale-Tool scales, the Shear-Tool shears, etc. But the Move-Tool doesn't move.

Although there is a new Tool planned, this is one of these bugs which make it little surprising if people complain about GIMP's workflow not only beeing "different" but also unintuitive.
Comment 1 Michael Schumacher 2011-11-25 23:34:11 UTC
You're referring to the behavior of the tools when there's an active selection, right?
Comment 2 Sodhi, Cedric 2011-11-26 08:07:34 UTC
Yes. That seems to accurately describe the problem.
Comment 3 GrafxUser 2012-01-28 15:19:36 UTC
I tried to reproduce it. 
The difference between the rotating/scaling/shearing tools and the move tool is the following:
The first tools create a layer for the floating selection and further work on this new layer. The move tool doesn't create a separate layer to work on. To move a selected area, you have to 
1. select the area
2. choose Select/Float or just press Shift+Ctrl+L to create a floating selection
3. click on move tool and behind the word 'Move:' choose 'Layer'
4. move the selection where you want it
5. press Ctrl+H to anchor the selection in its origin layer or Shift+Ctrl+N to put the selection to a new layer.

In this connection I found a GUI bug, which also may have lead the original poster to confusion: if one chooses 'Selection' in step 3, there are two same titled options 'Move selection'. Both are inactive. According to the options to move layers or paths they should be titled 'Pickup new selection' and 'Move selected content'. The first one would move the selection (rectangle) itself to select another area. The latter would move the selected content of the image. This would solve the OP's problem even easier and more intuitive as my aforementioned solution.
Comment 4 Michael Natterer 2012-02-24 20:42:29 UTC
The move tool moves layers and guides. It used to move selected pixels,
creating a floating selection, but that was decided to be unexpected
and killed. Check the statusbar for modifiers that move the selected
pixels anyway.
Comment 5 Sodhi, Cedric 2012-02-24 22:41:38 UTC
Okay, but does that make sense to any user?

Every other tool: Use without selection: Apply to layer. Use with selection: Apply to selected pixels.

That makes sense. It is not only intuitive, it's also what people know from the rest of the graphics world.

The move tool: Use without selection: Apply to layer. Use with selection: Apply to layer. Ignore selection.

That doesn't make sense to the user.
Comment 6 GrafxUser 2012-02-25 11:31:04 UTC
Thanks, Mitch, for your reply.
Unfortunately I can't comprehend your advices and why you closed this ticket "resolved, not a bug".

1. Do you really mean, the move tool only moves layers and guides? In strictly speaking this would mean, that moving selections, selected areas and paths is unwanted, buggy behavior in GIMP. Consequently the icons "selection" and "path" should be removed from the move tool's utility window. But they are basic functions. If GIMP developers decided to remove them, GIMP will be finally out of the picture soon. Remember, GIMP was the best-known graphics application for free and for Linux for a long time (and I still love it), but times change. In the meantime, there grew up aspiring competitors, that are freeware or affordable, too. 
I just tried to do this with some other tools:
Photoshop, Photoshop Elements: Selection tool + Move tool: moves pixels
Paint.NET: Selection tool + Move pixels tool: moves pixels
Windows 7 Paint: has no separate move tool, but moving pixels is even easier: Selection tool, click into selection and move it: moves pixels.
Krita: Selection tool + Transform layer or selection tool, in Tool options utility windows press 'Apply': moves pixels
Digikam and Darktable don't have this function, but they are mainly photo editors. GIMP is more than that, as even most of its own splashscreens show.
So, this basic operation should be easily supported by GIMP.

>  It used to move selected pixels, creating a floating selection, but that was decided to be unexpected and killed.
But insofar the move tool would behave 
a) just like the other manipulating tools (rotate, scale, shear) and
b) as what one expects when selecting an image area for editing it.
What exactly is unexpected in this?

> Check the statusbar for modifiers that move the selected pixels anyway
Using GIMP 2.6.12 on Mac and 2.6.11 on Linux, I don't see any modifiers in the statusbar when using the move tool. All I see there are an icon, the text "move" and a pair of coordinates.
In the online help I read, one has to use the selection tool, then press Alt+Ctrl or Alt+Shift do create a floating selection from the selected area and move this around. This works on Linux, but not on a Mac (btw: should I open an extra bugticket for this?). After having switched to another tool and returning to selection tool, the key combinations don't work anymore. Second, extensive use of key combinations with Alt and Ctrl can lead to confusing conflicts with window managers (see bug #131378). The third inconsistency are the two equally named, inactive tool options 'Move selection' I mentioned in comment #3.
This all could easily and consistently be done with one click with the move tool instead of an inconvenient und inconsistent key and mouse combination or confusing UI clutter.

It's a long text, but I hope, it showed the necessity.
I understand if GIMP developers would try to keep the mountain of open tickets small due to other, more important tasks and limited capacities. If they can't realize it in short time, I can agree to get it fixed a bit later, but it should be fixed.
Comment 7 Michael Natterer 2012-02-28 10:07:58 UTC
Ok my bad, I was talking about the changed *selection* tool behavior,
which used to move the selected pixels if something was selected.
Now (since 2.6) you need modifiers for that.

I agree the move tool doesn't do that at all, but it should, be it
with modifiers, or without. Reopening.
Comment 8 Sodhi, Cedric 2013-02-13 21:34:57 UTC
Having stumbled about the very same issue again, unable to figure out how to move anything despite looking around in the Move-Tool and the two selection let me emphasize that this urgently needs fixing. Compare to the rest of the nowadays delightfully smooth user experience, this "policy" is a catastrophe!

Here is what anyone would expect, what is consistent and what should be the policy:

Select Tool:
*Selects pixels* (Rectangular and Free-Hand work exactly the same).
The Alt/Meta Modifier to the Select Tool moves the current selection (also available as an explicit tool-option "Move Selection" in the tool's menu.

Move Tool:
When pixels are selected, moves those pixels, leaving behind either transparency or the background color (this could possibly be chosen by a tool-option/modifier - I bet there is already a rule for that).
When NO pixels are selected, moves the whole layer.
This behavior is then consistent with every other tool (which is: If nothing is selected, operate on the whole layer. Else: Operate on the selection)
Comment 9 Sodhi, Cedric 2013-02-13 21:38:25 UTC
Clarification: By

"The Alt/Meta Modifier to the Select Tool moves the current selection."

I mean to say that it actually moves the *selection* as opposed to the selected pixels (pretty much what the Alt-Modifier already does right now).
Comment 10 Michael Schumacher 2013-02-14 15:22:36 UTC
The decision not to move the selected pixels without a modifier was done due to complaints that accidental minute adjustments did happen and were not noticed.
Comment 11 Sodhi, Cedric 2013-02-14 15:43:53 UTC
Why are such accidental minute adjustments more likely to happen with the move tool than with any other tool?

By the way, which tool (the modifier to which tool) are we talking about here? Because I still haven't found out which tool actually does the "move selected pixels" task you're talking about.
Comment 12 Sodhi, Cedric 2013-02-14 16:00:42 UTC
Anticipating your response (even if I'm mistaken):

If there is no particular reason why such unnoticed, minute adjustments are likely to happen accidentally (and I think there is not, given that every other graphics application on the planet works the way I described), I don't see a reason for such strange measures.

If the respective person who made that complaint is not able to keep their clicks in line, they are apparently unqualified to use GIMP, or any other program which comes without child-safety, for that matter.
Comment 13 Michael Schumacher 2013-02-14 18:44:57 UTC
No, they happened with the selection tools. My point is that there's probably a justification for a different behavior of the  Move tools and the Selection tools in regard to moving pixels. 

You comments give me the impression that you want both to behave the same.
Comment 14 Sodhi, Cedric 2013-02-14 19:43:11 UTC
(In reply to comment #13)
> You comments give me the impression that you want both to behave the same.

How could THIS happen? I'll try to be as clear as I possibly can (please see also comment #8 !)

THE SELECT TOOL: Does only create selections and modify these selections (the selections, not what is selected), such as moves them.

THE MOVE TOOL: Moves the content which is selected or, if nothing is selected, moves the whole layer.
Comment 15 Sodhi, Cedric 2013-02-14 22:05:02 UTC
These are NOT THE CHANGES based upon the current state (the "diff", so to speak), but these is the propositions for how it SHOULD BE. Alltogether. Without reference to anything:

THE SELECT TOOL: Does only create selections and modify these selections (the selections, not what is selected), such as moves them (either by pressing a modifier or by not pressing that modifier)

THE MOVE TOOL: Moves the content which is selected or, if nothing is selected, moves the whole layer (or moves the contents of the whole layer, leaving the layer in place - that's a detail).
Comment 16 Jehan 2017-03-24 02:41:34 UTC
Even though it would be good to improve the move tool interaction usage, this is not a release blocker. I suggest we bump to 3.0 milestone.
What do you think?
Comment 17 Jehan 2017-03-24 23:19:22 UTC
In our current effort to get a 2.10 release, I am bumping this non-blocker report to 3.0 milestone. It can still make it to 2.10 if someone provides an updated patch before the release.

Also with our new release policy, the feature will be allowed to be released in a minor 2.10.x version as well.
Comment 18 GNOME Infrastructure Team 2018-05-24 13:06:33 UTC
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