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Bug 656680 - Tomboy fails to start with Mono 2.10.5 for Mac due to incompatible ige-mac-integration
Tomboy fails to start with Mono 2.10.5 for Mac due to incompatible ige-mac-in...
Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX
Product: tomboy
Classification: Applications
Component: General
1.6.x
Other Mac OS
: Urgent critical
: 1.8.0
Assigned To: Tomboy Maintainers
Tomboy Maintainers
: 659539 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2011-08-16 17:26 UTC by David Nielsen
Modified: 2012-10-23 22:12 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---


Attachments
Unhandled Exception when starting Tomboy on OSX 10.7.1 (2.09 KB, text/plain)
2011-08-18 12:58 UTC, Brendan Martens
Details
Terminal output of mono --version (445 bytes, text/plain)
2011-08-18 12:59 UTC, Brendan Martens
Details
Tomboy excpetion of tomboy run without the macbin/ige-mac-integration-sharp.dll file. (2.09 KB, text/plain)
2011-08-18 14:34 UTC, Brendan Martens
Details

Description David Nielsen 2011-08-16 17:26:49 UTC
I just tried to install the 1.6.0 build of Tomboy on my OS X Lion machine and it fails to launch. Apparently this is due to Lionbreaking GTK# in a way that requires a rebuild of Tomboy.

http://twitter.com/#!/directhex/status/103376480054153216
Comment 1 Sandy Armstrong 2011-08-16 17:38:20 UTC
Yeah, as of yet none of us have Lion.  Would you like to help build these releases?  If not, I'll put out a call for help on the list.

I'd really prefer not to upgrade my home or work machine at this time.
Comment 2 Sandy Armstrong 2011-08-16 17:38:51 UTC
Of note, we need to find out if binaries built on Lion will still work on the Leopards.
Comment 3 David Nielsen 2011-08-16 17:42:08 UTC
I will be happy to build releases for you. Just send the procedure to me (I assume this is bockbuild?) and I will get right on it. Life without Tomboy is not worth living.

As for older releases it is my understanding of the issue that such a build should work on those as well but I cannot test that assumption.
Comment 4 Sandy Armstrong 2011-08-16 17:52:20 UTC
We do not use bockbuild (or autotools at all) at this time.

Sadly, I realize I have not added the full release process for Mac on this page: https://live.gnome.org/Tomboy/ReleaseChecklist

This is how you build the .app on Mac: https://live.gnome.org/Tomboy/Building/Mac

It's quite simple.  All we do after that is dump the .app, COPYING, and README into a .zip file that we distribute.  We don't bother with disk images anymore.

If you could build a .app, test that it works, and then attach it here so that I can test it on 10.6, that would be great!
Comment 5 Brendan Martens 2011-08-18 12:58:48 UTC
Created attachment 194127 [details]
Unhandled Exception when starting Tomboy on OSX 10.7.1

This exception is from a custom compiled Tomboy pulled from the git repository, built with mono 2.10.4.
Comment 6 Brendan Martens 2011-08-18 12:59:34 UTC
Created attachment 194128 [details]
Terminal output of mono --version

Just to make it easy to see what I am building with.
Comment 7 Brendan Martens 2011-08-18 13:01:12 UTC
It would appear that my attachments made it onto the ticket before my comment... Sorry...

I just tried to build and run Tomboy on OSX 10.7.1 using mono 2.10.4 and got the attached exception.

I would be happy to work with someone to get Tomboy building, I miss it too!
Comment 8 Sandy Armstrong 2011-08-18 14:29:17 UTC
Hmm, it looks like we've been bundling ige-mac-integration-sharp.dll (look in macbin), and the underlying native library must have changed in 10.7 or something.

I'm not sure if this dll is now provided by the mono installer...perhaps we can build without bundling it now?
Comment 9 Brendan Martens 2011-08-18 14:32:23 UTC
I renamed that file and built again, everything appears to have built correctly, but it looks like we got the same exception.
Comment 10 Brendan Martens 2011-08-18 14:34:27 UTC
Created attachment 194135 [details]
Tomboy excpetion of tomboy run without the macbin/ige-mac-integration-sharp.dll file.
Comment 11 Sandy Armstrong 2011-08-18 14:50:52 UTC
Also, we might want to look at borrowing code from MonoDevelop to do native menus and stuff...it is at least actively maintained compared to the ige-mac-integration stuff.
Comment 12 Sandy Armstrong 2011-08-28 13:46:22 UTC
I have been able to reproduce this bug on 10.6 using Mono 2.10.5 (currently the latest installer available for download).  They did indeed start including a brand new version of ige-mac-integration (the previous version was 3 years old).

Looks like we may be able to fix this without needing access to Lion.  Updating summary.
Comment 13 Sandy Armstrong 2011-08-28 14:21:34 UTC
If I comment-out the dock stuff in MacApplication.cs Tomboy runs fairly well.  The "Window" menu doesn't work quite right anymore with this new version of ige-mac-integration.

The bizarre thing is that the ige_mac_dock_get_type endpoint that is supposed to be missing and the startup error *does* appear to exist, assuming I'm looking at the right repo:

https://github.com/jralls/ige-mac-integration/blob/ige-mac-integration-0.9.8/src/ige-mac-dock.h#L60

It would be nice to having working dock integration because otherwise you can't quit Tomboy from the dock.  You also lose the gtk note menu, but that has always been a bit gross anyway.
Comment 14 Sandy Armstrong 2011-09-20 15:20:28 UTC
*** Bug 659539 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 15 Charles Baker 2011-11-01 19:24:23 UTC
This still appears to be a problem. I'm running Lion 10.7.2. I followed the instructions at http://live.gnome.org/Tomboy/Building/Mac, which I presume would get me the latest source from git.gnome.org/Tomboy. I have Mono 2.10.6 from http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.html. I'm really missing Tomboy on the Macbook Pro I got at my new job. Is there anything I can do to help? I'm far from a Mac hacker, but if I can help I'm sure I would learn something new.
Comment 16 Charles Baker 2011-11-01 19:25:49 UTC
Oh, and for the record, I can't get the pre-built 1.6.0 version to run either. Appears to be the same problem that still exists in the latest source in git.
Comment 17 Sandy Armstrong 2011-11-01 19:31:26 UTC
See comment #13 and the exception in comment #10.  There is no version of Tomboy that works with latest Mono right now, and Lion is only supported with latest Mono.

Options for helping are:

* Figure out why the error is happening, given that the ige_mac_dock_get_type endpoint appears to exist in the source. If it's possible to fix that error, we don't have to do anything else.

* Alternatively, look at the Mac integration code in MonoDevelop and figure out how to use it instead of our old unsupported ige-mac-integration bindings to provide Dock and Menu support.
Comment 18 Hal Vaughan 2011-11-18 07:59:16 UTC
At this point, I'm not clear.  What I'm getting is that the bug is in how Mono handles the ige_mac_dock_get_type with Lion, so the problem is with Mono, not with Tomboy.

Is that what is being said here?
Comment 19 Sandy Armstrong 2011-11-18 14:05:50 UTC
Mono changed the version of the ige mac library they were bundling, and the C# bindings for that library that Tomboy bundles no longer seem to work with them.

We need to update those bindings or switch to borrowing code from MonoDevelop. It's unlikely that Mono guys would fix their stuff unless we provided a patch or something.
Comment 20 Hal Vaughan 2011-11-18 16:15:23 UTC
So it can be fixed in Tomboy by changing the bindings used for the ige mac library?
Comment 21 Hal Vaughan 2011-12-22 20:50:45 UTC
I haven't programmed in years, and I've never used Mono or C# (but have used Java), but after the holidays, might have time to look into Mono and look at what's going on, but I am confused.  Sandy said the C# bindings are not working.

So is there a chance I could get an answer to my last question?  Is it just a matter of updating those bindings?  Because I'd be willing to take time to learn enough to help, but I'm not going to even bother if I don't have enough info to know what to look into once I dive in.
Comment 22 Jared Jennings 2011-12-22 21:37:12 UTC
Lets hope Sandy can shed some light on this or we bug the Mono guys and see if they can shed some light on what changed on the Mono side and also how they are doing it in MonoDevelop.

I can try to help with that part if needed.
Comment 23 Hal Vaughan 2012-03-22 04:19:45 UTC
I'm sorry if this sounds nasty, but this is why I often don't use open source any more, and Gnome projects in particular.

If you're a programmer and you want to modify the source code and you want a product that does great "programmer" things, it's great, but if you're just trying to do a task and don't want to have to mess around, it's a pain -- and if you dare say that it's not user friendly or that it doesn't work unless you're an uber-geek, then you get criticized out the wazoo.

I gave up on Tomboy.  While I don't use Mono myself, I had time and even asked, as can be seen above, for help and guidance in understanding just what was wrong with Tomboy.  I have done a lot of programming -- enough that I retired 20 years early because my custom software worked so well -- so I'm not a complete newbie or idiot.

I tried to find out what was going on, but nobody here seems willing to tell us much of what is going on and help us understand the problem.  If I understood it, I would have either helped or even offered a bounty to get it fixed, but we've been ignored here for about 3 months.

That's led to me saying, "Forget Tomboy.  They'll never fix it, and if they do, how do I know, in the future, that they'll hang us out to dry again by just ignoring other problems and not answering questions?"  I went ahead and bought a program to replace Tomboy.

I started my business on open source software and was a major evangelist for close to a decade, but started to give it up because of problems like this.  So while this bug has been left to sit and we can't even get a good explanation of what's wrong, I've given up on another FOSS program and this has reminded me that I prefer to avoid Gnome because it's more programmer oriented than user oriented and I'm sure a lot of other Tomboy users have found the same frustrations.

This doesn't hurt just Tomboy, but it hurts FOSS overall.  I know it's free, but when users can't depend on software, then they turn to suppliers they can count on and start labeling the suppliers of non-working programs as ones to avoid.

And that's what's happened here.

I'm turned off to Tomboy and this just drives me yet another step away from FOSS because it reminds me of how unresponsive most FOSS developers are.
Comment 24 Sandy Armstrong 2012-03-22 05:03:31 UTC
Hal: comments like that are totally unhelpful (and of course totally off-topic for this bug).  Maintaining open source software is a lot of work and clearly the Tomboy team is currently lacking Mac expertise.  I used to maintain the Mac build but I retired from Tomboy a couple of years ago.

You are entitled to your opinions, but trashing the existing maintainers for their *volunteer* work is in very poor taste.  They have limited time and hardware resources.  Your rant cannot change this, and in fact negative energy like that can only hurt a project.

I'm sorry that the Tomboy team hasn't lived up to your expectations, and I hope you find a decent replacement program, but I also hope you apologize to Jared for this misdirected anger and try to be a little more considerate the next time reality doesn't match up with your desires.

And in the future, rants like this belong in blog posts, not bug reports.
Comment 25 Hal Vaughan 2012-03-22 07:27:30 UTC
Sandy: Considering that I have been asking for more information since November and it's now almost April, and that you seem to understand the situation, and did not reply to me until I left that comment, that shows that my comment is not so off-topic and not unhelpful.  After all, a polite request for information so I could help was ignored by you for about five months.

You did not respond to requests for information, so I say, "I wanted to help, but couldn't get the help, so I'm leaving," and suddenly you show up and respond and you don't like my comments.  Where were you for five months that you couldn't have responded and given me an answer so I could have started trying to help?  Why is it you suddenly have time to respond with righteous indignation now, but didn't have time, throughout five months, to give me the time of day when I wanted to help?

I've published my own FOSS programs and I would never dream of ignoring an issue that's so serious it keeps a program from running for five months when someone has offered to help.  Even if I can't help them, I'd step up and say, "I'm sorry, I can't help."  But I *never* ignore a request, especially if someone is offering to help.

Your own actions have shown my comment belongs in a bug report.  Why?  Because this issue has been ignored for five months and you, for one, have shown no desire to respond when I asked for help.  My recent comment, not a request for help, is what it took to get your attention.  So if you want to point a finger, first examine your own unwillingness to respond to someone who wanted to help, but your haste to respond to someone who decided, with good reason, that Tomboy is not reliable.

As for Jared, he tried to get you to respond and was at least looking at providing help if he could.  He didn't ignore my offer to help and request for information, like you did.  If he's the project leader, then I would suggest that you owe him an apology for letting someone who wanted to help just hang in the wind for five months.

Users need programs they can count on -- and when they can't, and can't get help, and offer to help and don't get any answers, then they realize the program (or those behind it) are not producing something they can count on.  And that's what's happening.

I can see you don't like what I said, but at least it got a response when my help requests (so I could help) got nothing.
Comment 26 Jared Jennings 2012-03-22 14:22:01 UTC
Hal,
I've been posting about this topic on Twitter and Google+ and haven't updated this Bug.

We have been able to get Tomboy to launch on Lion, but we had to have a very specific copy of ige-mac-integration-sharp.dll. A couple of people try this and had limited success.

Just two weeks ago a couple of us have started writing a new Library as Sandy has said. We also believe that we will have a Tomboy for Mac out by end of 2012. I for one want Tomboy on Mac as I have a Mac now and it hurts really bad to not have Tomboy. If you are interested I will try to post status updates here on Google+ https://plus.google.com/b/102244221725973198323/
Comment 27 James Andrewartha 2012-03-22 15:03:32 UTC
Hal: +1.

I have Tomboy running on Lion by using Mono 2.6.7 per http://www.sysr.co.uk/2011/09/08/tomboy-notes-does-not-work-on-mac-osx-snow-leopardlion-10-6-10-7/
Comment 28 Hal Vaughan 2012-03-22 16:43:34 UTC
Jared, thank you for a reply on this!

The issue with following a project on Twitter is, honestly, overload.  At one point I realized that I was spending, literally, 3 hours a day keeping up with social media.  (Since it was at different points throughout the day, it took me a while to realize it was that much.)  Following every feed for every person or project I have any interest in was more than I could follow and still get work done.

Which is why, for me, at least, getting email notifications on specific bugs works much better.  I don't think I'm unique in this.

What I did see was that I offered to help, you responded, indicating Sandy would have more information, but even with an offer to help, I never got a reply.

Now, with the Google link, I'll check that every month or so and see if there's a change.

James' link does work -- I uninstalled Mono 2.10.x and installed 2.6.x according to the link's instructions.  With that done, Tomboy does run on Lion, but on the other hand, I can't resize windows without it crashing.  I don't know how much of an issue that is because it'll take me a while to copy notes from my other app back to Tomboy.

Thank you, Jared, for a reply on this.  It helps me and I'm sure it helps others watching this bug who aren't on Twitter or who don't receive the other feeds.
Comment 29 Jared Jennings 2012-03-22 16:54:56 UTC
Understood.

Also with this Mono version I cannot sync my notes. It starts, but then times out. Hopefully it's not an issue for you.

To your original question about the Mono bindings. I don't know because I don't really understand that code. From what I can tell, the issue is in the Mono code and not in Tomboy. The class that calls Mono for these bindings is very small, only about 200 lines of code; yet when I tried to change it it got very complicated. It's because Tomboy has GTK code throughout the whole system and so changing from GTK support to something else isn't small; which has lead to the Tomboy-library work that has started.

I am sure that if someone has the time or knowledge, the fix in ige-mac-integration-sharp.dll could be done and should be done and I hope someone does pick it up. It is weird that some version of Mono do not have this issue and others do. So with that maybe it would be beneficial to ask in the Mono IRC or mailing list of what needs to change. Another option would be to review github and see what is different in that class between the different releases. I haven't done either of those options myself (actually just thought of it), but I hope this all helps.

Sorry you were ignored.
Comment 30 Jared Jennings 2012-07-17 03:55:06 UTC
Update:
We are nearing the first Beta release of the re-written Tomboy on Mac release. (codename Macboy)
You can follow the progress on my GNOME blog [1]
I will post here once Macboy has been released.

[1] http://blogs.gnome.org/jjennings/