GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 656091
[WEB] new-windows-in-tabs should be true by default
Last modified: 2011-12-10 12:16:28 UTC
All major web browsers use tabs these days and users are quite familiar with them in general. Since tabs are first class citizens in Epiphany, we should use them by default.
Created attachment 193366 [details] [review] Use tabs by default
Review of attachment 193366 [details] [review]: I'm not particularly against this, just a couple of comments: - We should probably try to get a few comments from designers. - If we do this, should we add a preference in the UI?
Want me to propose this to the designers? If so, what's the standard communication channel to bring this up?
(In reply to comment #3) > Want me to propose this to the designers? If so, what's the standard > communication channel to bring this up? I'm having a BoF with them tomorrow, so I'll ask in person.
Please don't. IMHO we should be moving to gnome-shell to manage multiple open pages and ditch tabs altogether. There are lots of long standing problems with the GtkNotebook which aren't going to be solved anytime soon. (*) This would be going in exactly the opposite direction. (*) Open epiphany Tab bugs: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&component=Tabs&product=epiphany (*) Open GtkNotebook bugs related to Epiphany: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?emailcc2=1;emailreporter2=1;query_format=advanced;emailtype2=substring;emailqa_contact2=1;bug_status=UNCONFIRMED;bug_status=NEW;bug_status=ASSIGNED;bug_status=REOPENED;bug_status=NEEDINFO;email2=epiphany;emailassigned_to2=1;component=GtkNotebook;product=gtk%2B
(In reply to comment #5) > Please don't. IMHO we should be moving to gnome-shell to manage multiple open > pages and ditch tabs altogether. There are lots of long standing problems with > the GtkNotebook which aren't going to be solved anytime soon. (*) > This would be going in exactly the opposite direction. Let's fix the bugs then. All major browsers use tabs by default. At the very least we should expose this setting.
(In reply to comment #6) > (In reply to comment #5) > > Please don't. IMHO we should be moving to gnome-shell to manage multiple open > > pages and ditch tabs altogether. There are lots of long standing problems with > > the GtkNotebook which aren't going to be solved anytime soon. (*) > > This would be going in exactly the opposite direction. > > Let's fix the bugs then. All major browsers use tabs by default. At the very > least we should expose this setting. Part of the reason these bugs haven't been fixed by now - so I'm told - is that the GtkNotebook code is notoriously difficult. And "all major browsers do X" never was a strong argument to implement a feature in Epiphany. For instance, we've had countless requests for a search box like Firefox, now Chrome does the same thing as we do with an integrated address bar and no one is complaining. Exposing the new-windows-in-tabs setting is also something to think about carefully. How would it be exposed? We currently don't have any Tab-related items in the Preferences and it would be good to keep it that way. Perhaps, when a site requests a new window, Epiphany could show an infobar-dialog asking whether or not this site should be allowed to do so in the future. Or we could think about how it could be integrated with the similar popups-allowed preference.
(In reply to comment #7) > Part of the reason these bugs haven't been fixed by now - so I'm told - is that > the GtkNotebook code is notoriously difficult. Perhaps it is difficult to work with, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to fix the bugs. Beside, the bugs you linked to do not seem like blockers to using GtkNotebook. In fact, many GTK+ applications use it. I use tabbed-mode in Epiphany all the time, with few complaints. > And "all major browsers do X" never was a strong argument to implement a > feature in Epiphany. For instance, we've had countless requests for a search > box like Firefox, now Chrome does the same thing as we do with an integrated > address bar and no one is complaining. Technically the example you listed is "one major browser did X." It could be that I'm more open to this style of feature addition since that how WebKit and HTML5 typically work. > Exposing the new-windows-in-tabs setting is also something to think about > carefully. How would it be exposed? We currently don't have any Tab-related > items in the Preferences and it would be good to keep it that way. Why is it good to hide tabs in Epiphany? Right now they are off by default and there are no preferences for them. You say it is good, but I'm not sure why. Many people immediately toggle a dconf setting when they start using Epiphany. That's bad. :) Tabs are not some mutated grandchild with 10 legs and a spider face that we should hide in the cellar. > Perhaps, when a site requests a new window, Epiphany could show an > infobar-dialog asking whether or not this site should be allowed to do so > in the future. Or we could think about how it could be integrated with > the similar popups-allowed preference. This seems like a good idea, but it's orthogonal to tabs. I manually place new links in tabs with middle click. A new tab isn't always something the site does to you. Anyway, I'm curious if the designers got back to us on this one. They're the ones who should decide.
(In reply to comment #8) > Anyway, I'm curious if the designers got back to us on this one. They're the > ones who should decide. After talking with a bunch of the designers at GUADEC our current understanding is that we'll try to design and implement/prototype a tab-less UI for the 3.4 time frame. That being said I don't think that will obsolete this debate, since in the end it is related to a more generic problem space than tabs. The issue here is whether you want to automatically group new pages in the current "group mechanism" (be it tabs or whatever substitute we come up with) or not. I don't have an answer yet, but my feeling is that regardless of what we choose the setting is important enough to appear in the UI in one way or another unless our design makes one of the alternatives completely useless. I've been already shown some initial mockups for our future design, hopefully we can make them available soon.
(In reply to comment #8) > Perhaps it is difficult to work with, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to > fix the bugs. Beside, the bugs you linked to do not seem like blockers to using > GtkNotebook. In fact, many GTK+ applications use it. I use tabbed-mode in > Epiphany all the time, with few complaints. I do as well, but that doesn't take away the fact that there are real problems with the GtkNotebook widget (in particular, with tab overflow) that haven't been solved in many years, and unless you plan on writing patches probably won't be fixed in the near future. > Why is it good to hide tabs in Epiphany? Right now they are off by default and > there are no preferences for them. You say it is good, but I'm not sure why. > Many people immediately toggle a dconf setting when they start using Epiphany. > That's bad. :) Tabs are not some mutated grandchild with 10 legs and a spider > face that we should hide in the cellar. For people who know how to toggle dconf settings, tabs are there to use as much as they like. But people like my parents, for whom it's definitely not immediately obvious how to use tabs, shouldn't be forced to deal with them. I for one am looking forward to working with the tab-less UI. :-)
It would a be very difficult to use a tab-less Epiphany in GNOME shell as it is today. I imagine a normal user clicking on epiphany icon to start it, browse to any website, then click on epiphany icon to launch a new window (as CTRL-T wouldn't work anymore), and have the already opened epiphany window pop up instead... Unless the dash behaviour is changed to opening new windows by default, a tab-less UI will be problematic IMHO.
(In reply to comment #11) > It would a be very difficult to use a tab-less Epiphany in GNOME shell as it is > today. I imagine a normal user clicking on epiphany icon to start it, browse to > any website, then click on epiphany icon to launch a new window (as CTRL-T > wouldn't work anymore), and have the already opened epiphany window pop up > instead... Unless the dash behaviour is changed to opening new windows by > default, a tab-less UI will be problematic IMHO. Even if Ctrl+T wouldn't work anymore, Ctrl+N would. Also, middle clicking on the epiphany icon in the dash would open a new window.
> Even if Ctrl+T wouldn't work anymore, Ctrl+N would. Yes, that's right :) > Also, middle clicking on > the epiphany icon in the dash would open a new window. To be more precise, it opens a new window *in a new workspace*. To open a new window in the current workspace, you have to right-click on the launcher and choose "new window".
(In reply to comment #13) > To be more precise, it opens a new window *in a new workspace*. To open a new > window in the current workspace, you have to right-click on the launcher and > choose "new window". If you do it from the shell, yes you're right, but Epiphany also allows to open a new window from the File menu or by selecting to open a new window from the context menu of a hyperlink.
Comment on attachment 193366 [details] [review] Use tabs by default The last refresh on the new design does not have visible tabs in the UI, but the new 'Page' concept is really similar to it conceptually. Given that, and given that all new pages will be opened as new pages by default, it makes sense to enable this by default for now to ease the transition. This has been discussed with the designers, and they agree.
Comment on attachment 193366 [details] [review] Use tabs by default Pushed to master.
Closing, commit is 7c8add0f5a81cee4b04c64360102e723c5405f76.