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Bug 649877 - Platform Overview -- minor feedback while translating
Platform Overview -- minor feedback while translating
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: gnome-devel-docs
Classification: Applications
Component: general
unspecified
Other All
: Normal minor
: ---
Assigned To: gnome-devel-docs maintainers
gnome-devel-docs maintainers
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2011-05-10 09:14 UTC by Luc Pi
Modified: 2012-03-31 13:42 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---


Attachments
0001-new-file-.gitignore.patch (650 bytes, patch)
2011-05-29 09:04 UTC, Luc Pi
none Details | Review
0003-added-reference-to-tech-s-web-site.patch (2.43 KB, patch)
2011-05-29 09:05 UTC, Luc Pi
committed Details | Review
0004-use-the-same-structure-for-the-further-links.patch (3.16 KB, patch)
2011-05-29 09:05 UTC, Luc Pi
committed Details | Review
0005-typo.patch (975 bytes, patch)
2011-05-29 09:05 UTC, Luc Pi
committed Details | Review
0006-cut-the-p-into-two.patch (1.23 KB, patch)
2011-05-29 09:06 UTC, Luc Pi
needs-work Details | Review
0007-added-a-p-on-animations.patch (1.17 KB, patch)
2011-05-29 09:07 UTC, Luc Pi
committed Details | Review
0009-added-xrefs.patch (1.28 KB, patch)
2011-05-29 09:07 UTC, Luc Pi
committed Details | Review
0010-better-description-for-gtk.patch (797 bytes, patch)
2011-05-29 09:08 UTC, Luc Pi
committed Details | Review
0011-better-description-for-GStreamer.patch (851 bytes, patch)
2011-05-29 09:08 UTC, Luc Pi
committed Details | Review
0012-remove-redundancy.patch (1.40 KB, patch)
2011-05-29 09:08 UTC, Luc Pi
needs-work Details | Review
0013-better-description-for-telepathy.patch (840 bytes, patch)
2011-05-29 09:09 UTC, Luc Pi
committed Details | Review
0014-removed-ref-to-GBus-added-xref-to-GIO.patch (1.01 KB, patch)
2011-05-29 09:09 UTC, Luc Pi
committed Details | Review

Description Luc Pi 2011-05-10 09:14:33 UTC
Below are a few relatively minor points I found, as I was translating the document. If you need separate report for each, let me know! If you want patch, let me know too! I separate each issue with a ruler.




--------------------------------------------------------------
C/telepathy.page:6(desc)
msgid "Unified and integrated contacts and instant messaging"

is Telepathy really this?
I am no Telepathy expert, though for example I understood it can be used for a two remote players board game. We don't get it from the description.


--------------------------------------------------------------
Some modules have reference to the project's website.
I think it would be good that each module has such link.
For example Telepathy page doesn't


--------------------------------------------------------------
#: C/index.page:34(p)
msgid ""
"The GNOME platform provides a comprehensive development environment for "
"graphical applications and other software. GNOME provides a comprehensive "
"developer platform that allow developers to create professional software "
"that is easy to use and aesthetically pleasing. Using the technologies in "

writing style, the two first sentences are a bit heavy and redundant.

Also,
maybe add a sentence on module categories (core, graphical, etc.), as detailed lower on the page.

--------------------------------------------------------------
#: C/gtk.page:6(desc)
msgid "Graphical interfaces and core application support"

On the "core appl support", I suppose it means gtk+/gtk and glib, but this is in the graphical section, and the gtk page actually talks only about gtk+/gtk

maybe just "GUI"?

--------------------------------------------------------------
#: C/gstreamer.page:6(desc)
msgid "Plugin-based rich multimedia creation and delivery"

IMHO it does not enlighten much an application developer on what GStreamer will do for him/her.

In general,
it could be good to unify the "one sentence" module presentation. I like best the WebKit way. As an application developer I understand that this is [not] what I need to use. The others are not all clear to me.

--------------------------------------------------------------
#: C/gio.page:30(link) C/gio-network.page:20(link) C/d-bus.page:46(link)
msgid "GIO Reference Manual"

#: C/gio-network.page:21(link)
msgid "Lowlevel network support"

#: C/gio-network.page:22(link)
msgid "Highlevel network functionality"

These last two are subpages of GIO manual itself,
I think they could be presented as a sublist:

- GIO manual, especially:
  - low level section
  - high level section


--------------------------------------------------------------
uniform presentation,

all module pages have further references as a bullet list,
except Keyring and GDA (at least)
Comment 1 Luc Pi 2011-05-10 11:42:29 UTC
a typo,

#: C/telepathy.page:18(p)
msgid ""
"With the Telepathy Tubes API, you can even tunnel an arbitrary protocal over "
                                                                ^^^^^^^^
--> protocol
Comment 2 Luc Pi 2011-05-10 12:56:37 UTC
#: C/clutter.page:26(p)
msgid ""
"Clutter comes with pre-defined actors for displaying solid colors, image "
"data, text and custom high-precision 2D drawing using the Cairo API. Clutter "
"also provides generic classes for structuring a user interface using both a "
"box-packing model like GTK+, and a series of free-form \"constraints\"."

could link to cairo overview page (and GTK+ page too)
Comment 3 Luc Pi 2011-05-10 13:11:43 UTC
clutter page is lacking a word about animations (which makes clutter interesting)
Comment 4 Luc Pi 2011-05-10 13:54:45 UTC
the "help" page seems more about authoring than, a user help system (F1)
Comment 5 Luc Pi 2011-05-10 14:08:28 UTC
(In reply to comment #4)
> the "help" page seems more about authoring than, a user help system (F1)

OK, I understand better as I am reading the Mallard web site.
Maybe the overview text could be more clear?
Comment 6 Luc Pi 2011-05-10 20:51:08 UTC
#: C/index.page:34(p)
msgid ""
[snip]
"GNOME, you can create high-quality software to meet and exceed your users' "
"expectations. This document provides a high-level overview of the GNOME "
"platform along with links to detailed documentation on each part of the "
"platform."

suggesting to start a new paragraph at "This document..."
Comment 7 Luc Pi 2011-05-10 21:20:17 UTC
The "More about" bottom section does not work well for this type of document, which consists of a main index page, and independent sub-pages. Also in the overview each sub-page has a list of links to know "more about". It is especially highlighted by some translations of "More about", like
"Plus d'informations à ce sujet" (= more info _on_this_topic_)

+--------------------------------------------------------+
 GTK+ page

 <gtk overview>

 <link to more about gtk+>
 <link to more about gtk+>

 More about:
 <link to the index page,
  which has in fact no more about GTK+>
+--------------------------------------------------------+
Comment 8 Luc Pi 2011-05-10 22:53:41 UTC
#: C/d-bus.page:42(p)
msgid ""
"GNOME provides full support for D-Bus using the GBus and GDBus APIs in GIO."

What is GBus?
Comment 9 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:04:12 UTC
Created attachment 188826 [details] [review]
0001-new-file-.gitignore.patch
Comment 10 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:05:06 UTC
Created attachment 188827 [details] [review]
0003-added-reference-to-tech-s-web-site.patch
Comment 11 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:05:33 UTC
Created attachment 188828 [details] [review]
0004-use-the-same-structure-for-the-further-links.patch
Comment 12 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:05:58 UTC
Created attachment 188829 [details] [review]
0005-typo.patch
Comment 13 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:06:27 UTC
Created attachment 188830 [details] [review]
0006-cut-the-p-into-two.patch
Comment 14 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:07:02 UTC
Created attachment 188831 [details] [review]
0007-added-a-p-on-animations.patch
Comment 15 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:07:42 UTC
Created attachment 188832 [details] [review]
0009-added-xrefs.patch
Comment 16 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:08:04 UTC
Created attachment 188833 [details] [review]
0010-better-description-for-gtk.patch
Comment 17 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:08:30 UTC
Created attachment 188834 [details] [review]
0011-better-description-for-GStreamer.patch
Comment 18 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:08:55 UTC
Created attachment 188835 [details] [review]
0012-remove-redundancy.patch
Comment 19 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:09:20 UTC
Created attachment 188836 [details] [review]
0013-better-description-for-telepathy.patch
Comment 20 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:09:46 UTC
Created attachment 188837 [details] [review]
0014-removed-ref-to-GBus-added-xref-to-GIO.patch
Comment 21 Luc Pi 2011-05-29 09:27:15 UTC
I added patches for the issues above.
That's many little changes.
Tell me if you would like them in another form

  new file, .gitignore
  added reference to tech's web site
  use the same structure for the "further links"
  typo
  cut the <p> into two
  added a <p> on animations
  added xrefs
  better description for gtk
  better description for GStreamer
  remove redundancy
  better description for telepathy
  removed ref to "GBus" (?!?), added xref to GIO

 .gitignore                         |   15 +++++++++++++++
 platform-overview/C/cairo.page     |    1 +
 platform-overview/C/clutter.page   |   12 +++++++++---
 platform-overview/C/d-bus.page     |    4 ++--
 platform-overview/C/gda.page       |    4 ++--
 platform-overview/C/gstreamer.page |   16 ++++++++--------
 platform-overview/C/gtk.page       |    2 +-
 platform-overview/C/index.page     |   15 ++++++++-------
 platform-overview/C/keyring.page   |   10 +++++-----
 platform-overview/C/pango.page     |    1 +
 platform-overview/C/telepathy.page |    6 ++++--
 11 files changed, 56 insertions(+), 30 deletions(-)

About GIO networking references, I did not manage to create a nested list
- GIO manual, especially:
  - low level section
  - high level section
Comment 22 Luc Pi 2011-07-01 13:32:55 UTC
Could someone have a quick look at the patches?
Comment 23 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:12:33 UTC
Review of attachment 188827 [details] [review]:

ok.
Comment 24 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:15:19 UTC
Review of attachment 188828 [details] [review]:

ok.
Comment 25 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:16:28 UTC
Review of attachment 188829 [details] [review]:

ok.
Comment 26 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:20:13 UTC
Review of attachment 188830 [details] [review]:

patch no longer applies against git master for platfrom-overview/C/index.page
Comment 27 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:21:53 UTC
Review of attachment 188831 [details] [review]:

ok.
Comment 28 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:23:13 UTC
Review of attachment 188832 [details] [review]:

great!
Comment 29 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:24:24 UTC
Review of attachment 188833 [details] [review]:

I like it :)
Comment 30 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:25:36 UTC
Review of attachment 188834 [details] [review]:

Much better.  Thanks.
Comment 31 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:29:15 UTC
Review of attachment 188835 [details] [review]:

Patch does not apply against current master branch.
Comment 32 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:30:32 UTC
Review of attachment 188836 [details] [review]:

nice.
Comment 33 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:33:12 UTC
Review of attachment 188837 [details] [review]:

nice catch
Comment 34 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 01:38:54 UTC
Great suggestions Luc.  In the future, it would be best to attach each patch or set of two patches as separate bugs.  There is a chance they would get looked at faster.

Thank-you for your work.
Comment 35 Luc Pi 2012-03-31 08:32:01 UTC
Thank You Tiffany, for taking time to look at these, very much!


Next time I'll write that many reports.




(Honestly I am not sure that the delay is due to one or several reports. Personally, as a maintainer I prefer such tiny changes to be grouped together rather than being flooded by reports and all the administrative overhead. 

Maybe we can learn something from the history of this item.

The honest reason is that GNOME Documentation is cruelly lacking of people. This is known. There is more work than people, so things take time. 

The only bad part on this specific story, is not the delay as such, in fact, but that nobody gave a head up. This despite several calls here or on the list. I tried to draw attention to get this fixed for 3.2 but did not get a single answer. After 3.2, I completely gave up on this document.


I think that some authors do not see the value in translation (and do not care).


The other side of the delay is that the translation is pending all that time. It is not very pleasant to try to provide good translations based on erroneous sources, and it is not the proper way to fix things on translations and not at the source. In the end when there are several documents pending with NO NEWS on the other side, you start to be frustrated and discouraged. And one of the first symptom of discouragement from the translators is that _they_stop_to_give_feedback_ upstream! I see this happening regularly.

As an author I would take real care of translators, because they are the ones who will read completely and carefully your document. They do first class, priceless review. GNOME has too little resources to neglect this.



There is another thing that does not ease the situation: the tools and process that we use do not support quick fluent review-feedback-correction loops. There is definitely something to improve here also.




For this specific document, my understanding is that the author considers it as a "moving target" and is planning to rewrite it. So very personally, I don't think I will spend much more efforts on translating it.

I hope that you did not loose your time by reviewing this changes.


But at least you made me happy, thank you again for your attention!

Do you want me to check the two patches that failed?
Comment 36 Tiffany Antopolski 2012-03-31 13:42:07 UTC
Hi Luc,

   The good news is that the Gnome Documenation Team is growing, but we do need more people to work on developer docs.  It is also true that this module is being rewritten and a moving target.  Such a rewrite has actually been started, but I decided to apply your patches anyways, as I believe it will be a quite a while before the new docs will be done. We may also reuse some of the content.

Thank you very much for filing the bugs and not just using the translation to fix the problems.  I really appreciate this :-)

So the two patches that did not apply... one was a paragraph split and one a redundancy removal. If you have time to check the patches, that would be good.  

Also, there is #docs on irc if things are taking a while and you want to ping someone.  You may be correct that it was not the size of the bug that caused the delay.  It may be that it took me personally a while to look at it because of this reason, but I am new to devel-docs, so I first saw the bug just over a month ago.  I would have fixed it then if it was smaller.

Thanks for everything.

Tiffany 
irc  nick: mimiico