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Bug 597929 - gnome-volume-control/gnome-volume-control-applet provide no way to (un)mute devices
gnome-volume-control/gnome-volume-control-applet provide no way to (un)mute d...
Status: RESOLVED NOTGNOME
Product: gnome-media
Classification: Deprecated
Component: gnome-volume-control
2.28.x
Other Linux
: Normal normal
: ---
Assigned To: gnome media maintainers
gnome media maintainers
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2009-10-09 17:34 UTC by Jerry Casiano
Modified: 2010-06-10 10:09 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Jerry Casiano 2009-10-09 17:34:06 UTC
With the old applet it was very easy to mute/unmute devices, the new applet and preferences dialog provide no way to do this. 

Also all available options seem to assume that the user only wants to output to one device at a time. Fortunately, we haven't followed Windows and made it impossible, ...yet

An experienced user will just run alsamixer from a terminal, save, and be done.

But what about a new user?

A shortcut to the old mixer should be provided in the new preferences dialog.
Comment 1 Bastien Nocera 2009-10-10 00:12:36 UTC
gnome-volume-control provides easy ways to mute/unmute with a single click. The applet chooses not to offer mute/unmute as separate preferences, but instead binds to the volume (volume of 0 is muted, volume > 0 is not muted).

Select another device as the default, and you'll be able to mute those in the main dialogue. Nothing unexpected here. Works as designed.
Comment 2 Jerry Casiano 2009-10-10 06:46:35 UTC
So you're saying that it's designed to NOT allow the user to output to more than one device/channel at a time? even though the system is more than capable of it. 

If that is the case then I and I would think many others would consider that a HUGE design flaw.

Working with gnome-volume-control I found no way to output to both line out and S/PDIF at the same time, something that using alsamixer or the old preferences dialog is as easy as unmuting as many channels/devices as desired.
Comment 3 Jerry Casiano 2009-11-06 06:27:55 UTC
Hi, just wondering if there is any more information needed? 

Or is this complaint just considered invalid?

Personally, as long as alsamixer is available and works, I'm fine with it either way. But I do consider this a flaw in the new controls.
Comment 4 Jud Craft 2009-11-29 15:55:34 UTC
Is this bug still valid anymore?  Gnome-volume-control in GNOME 2.28 can toggle mute status for the both the volume control applet (right click), and in the Sound Preferences dialogue.
Comment 5 Jerry Casiano 2009-11-30 18:01:03 UTC
@ Jud Craft

Of course it's still valid. It's filed against 2.28, isn't it?

This was never an issue before 2.28. Did you not read anything I wrote?
Comment 6 Jud Craft 2009-11-30 18:16:52 UTC
Yes, I read everything you wrote.  I had a little difficulty understanding.

You brought up two problems.  1.  Applet & Preferences cannot unmute/mute an output device.  2.  GNOME treats sound as a one-output-at-a-time system.

I meant to say that I don't think #1 is a problem.  I apologize for not noticing your issue is actually two issues.
Comment 7 Tobias Mueller 2010-05-03 10:25:07 UTC
Reopening as the requested information has been provided.
Comment 8 Marc-Andre Lureau 2010-06-08 22:13:38 UTC
(In reply to comment #2)
> Working with gnome-volume-control I found no way to output to both line out and
> S/PDIF at the same time, something that using alsamixer or the old preferences
> dialog is as easy as unmuting as many channels/devices as desired.

afaik, lineout + SPDIF is considered as different audio "ports" (or audio routes), and cannot be enabled simultaneously on the same device.

Please file a bug in http://pulseaudio.org if you desire such feature.

alsamixer will be available as long as ALSA and your distribution supports it, it is not under the GNOME project.

For the rest of your requests, it seems everything has been cleared by Bastien.

Thanks for taking the time to report this bug.
Comment 9 Jerry Casiano 2010-06-08 23:12:28 UTC
(In reply to comment #8)
> afaik, lineout + SPDIF is considered as different audio "ports" (or audio
> routes), and cannot be enabled simultaneously on the same device.

Yeah, you're right, I'm just lying...

> Please file a bug in http://pulseaudio.org if you desire such feature.

Why would I file a bug with PulseAudio when it's not the issue? 

Sure it makes your life easy, since you can just say "It's not on our end" and mark it as "RESOLVED". But I'm not filing bugs on another project just to make you feel better.

PulseAudio allows for these types of setup by using modules, which as I said before I didn't even need to use. The fact that the gnome-volume-control chooses not to make use of those features or expose them to users is NOT a bug in PulseAudio.

The fact that gnome-volume-control places artificial limits on what PulseAudio can do is NOT a PulseAudio bug. Just like the fact that GNOME used to have a graphical interface to alsamixer by default and now doesn't isn't an ALSA bug.

> alsamixer will be available as long as ALSA and your distribution supports it,
> it is not under the GNOME project.

You don't say... My whole point was that I now have to open a terminal and run some ancient utility which is something I never had to do before the switch to the "improved" volume control.

> For the rest of your requests, it seems everything has been cleared by Bastien.
 
No. Nothing's been cleared up at all, and just saying that it has doesn't make it true.

> Thanks for taking the time to report this bug.

Yeah, sure. How pointless was that...
Comment 10 Marc-Andre Lureau 2010-06-08 23:23:14 UTC
(In reply to comment #9)
> > Please file a bug in http://pulseaudio.org if you desire such feature.
> 
> Why would I file a bug with PulseAudio when it's not the issue? 
> 

Because it seems to be the right place for your request. If I understand your issue correctly.

> PulseAudio allows for these types of setup by using modules, which as I said
> before I didn't even need to use. The fact that the gnome-volume-control
> chooses not to make use of those features or expose them to users is NOT a bug
> in PulseAudio.

I don't think you understand what gnome-volume-control and PulseAudio do. Each project has its responsability. Also, gnome-volume-control integration is meant to make life easy for 99% of people, the people would don't understand the ALSA mixer, for instance.

> The fact that gnome-volume-control places artificial limits on what PulseAudio
> can do is NOT a PulseAudio bug. Just like the fact that GNOME used to have a
> graphical interface to alsamixer by default and now doesn't isn't an ALSA bug.

It is by design. What you have in mind is not covered.

> > alsamixer will be available as long as ALSA and your distribution supports it,
> > it is not under the GNOME project.
> 
> You don't say... My whole point was that I now have to open a terminal and run
> some ancient utility which is something I never had to do before the switch to
> the "improved" volume control.

You can also run the old gnome-volume-control which gives you the old ALSA mixer with GTK. Debian still ship it for instance, and it's easy to compile from the gnome-media tarball with --enable-gstmix
Comment 11 Jerry Casiano 2010-06-09 00:21:09 UTC
(In reply to comment #10)
> Because it seems to be the right place for your request. If I understand your
> issue correctly.

Well, I guess you don't. My issue is with the GNOME components or lack thereof not with underlying libraries.

> I don't think you understand what gnome-volume-control and PulseAudio do.

I'm going to leave that assumption alone...

> Each project has its responsability. Also, gnome-volume-control integration is meant
> to make life easy for 99% of people, the people would don't understand the ALSA
> mixer, for instance.

Sure, that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is regression in terms of functionality. My request was simple, add a link to the old mixer for users who need it, label it "Advanced Configuration" if you like, at least until the new controls offer the same functionality. 

> > The fact that gnome-volume-control places artificial limits on what PulseAudio
> > can do is NOT a PulseAudio bug. Just like the fact that GNOME used to have a
> > graphical interface to alsamixer by default and now doesn't isn't an ALSA bug.
> 
> It is by design. What you have in mind is not covered.

So apparently you do understand/acknowledge my issue...


Obviously you think the new design is perfect just the way it is, I think it feels unfinished. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Comment 12 Marc-Andre Lureau 2010-06-09 07:10:25 UTC
(In reply to comment #11)
> > It is by design. What you have in mind is not covered.
> 
> So apparently you do understand/acknowledge my issue...

Enabling SPDIF and Analog output ("ports") simultaneously is not supported by PulseAudio, afaik.

It is PulseAudio job to abstract the different routes - and gnome-volume-control has a selector for them.
Comment 13 Jerry Casiano 2010-06-09 22:42:09 UTC
(In reply to comment #12)
> (In reply to comment #11)
> > > It is by design. What you have in mind is not covered.
> > 
> > So apparently you do understand/acknowledge my issue...
> 
> Enabling SPDIF and Analog output ("ports") simultaneously is not supported by
> PulseAudio, afaik.
> 
> It is PulseAudio job to abstract the different routes - and
> gnome-volume-control has a selector for them.

I already told you PulseAudio supports this using modules, back in comment #9, the fact that I had to tell you the first time is pretty sad considering your a gnome-media developer and this is in the PulseAudio FAQ.

http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/FAQ#CanIusePulseAudiotoplaybackmusicontwosoundcardssimultaneously

It takes four lines

load-module module-alsa-sink tsched=0 device=hw:0,0 sink_name=front
load-module module-alsa-sink tsched=0 device=hw:0,1 sink_name=digital
load-module module-combine slaves=front,digital
set-default-sink combined

This isn't even needed in a lot of cases including mine...


It's almost like we're not speaking the same language or you're just trying to entertain yourself at my expense...
Comment 14 Marc-Andre Lureau 2010-06-10 08:16:19 UTC
Sorry, my knowledge is limited, and I may say wrong things. Please try to be a bit less pretentious as well, that would make the discussion easier.

Also, adding Lennart in CC, we could use his help!

(In reply to comment #13)
> > > So apparently you do understand/acknowledge my issue...
> > 
> > Enabling SPDIF and Analog output ("ports") simultaneously is not supported by
> > PulseAudio, afaik.

> I already told you PulseAudio supports this using modules, back in comment #9,
> the fact that I had to tell you the first time is pretty sad considering your a
> gnome-media developer and this is in the PulseAudio FAQ.
> 

To be more correct, I am just one of the maintainer.

> http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/FAQ#CanIusePulseAudiotoplaybackmusicontwosoundcardssimultaneously

This is not something very common, simultaneous playback on two sink devices. And it won't be supported by gnome-media. But again, if you come up with a nice patch and rationale, then perhaps..

> This isn't even needed in a lot of cases including mine...

I wonder what you point this out, then.

Can you explain in more details how you solve the simultaneous playback of analog and SPDIF with PulseAudio today (since you claim it is possible), so we can actually understand better what you need?
Comment 15 Jerry Casiano 2010-06-10 10:09:17 UTC
(In reply to comment #14)
> Sorry, my knowledge is limited, and I may say wrong things. Please try to be a
> bit less pretentious as well, that would make the discussion easier.

Listen, if I sound pretentious, it's probably due to the fact that you've basically called me a liar twice now and even managed to throw in an arrogant comment about my understanding of a volume control. That coupled with the frustration that such a simple request could lead to such a lengthy discussion of irrelevant details is probably why my responses sound the way they do. 

I've already repeated my original request several times and I'm not really sure how to make it any clearer but here's my last attempt.

By default in older versions of GNOME, the volume control applet allowed users to control settings for individual devices, channels, inputs, outputs... whatever you want to refer to them as. By default newer versions of GNOME do not provide for this.

It's really a simple, "yes we know and we plan on restoring that functionality in the future in some way, shape, or form" or "yes we know and we don't plan on ever restoring that functionality".