(In reply to comment #0)
> Possible add a label with this spin button (for example progress bar update
> time interval) and possible change this string with following form:
> msgid "every %d seconds"

If we did this, the spin button contents and the label would both contain the numerical value.

Ok, I understand. But for example the speech rate slider have a label (rate string). If impossible do this, not problem.
If impossible to add a label with this spin button component, possible fix only the translation problem?

This is going to require a UI change and we're in UI freeze for 2.28. We'll look at it first thing in the 2.29 cycle, though.

Ok, thank you.

Attila

Taking this one. The fixes are getting lumped in as part of bug 593203.

By the way, what the labels are going to wind up being are:

1. "Progress Bar Updates" (for the new panel which contains all the progress bar settings")

2. "Enabled" (Whether or not to speak progress bar updates. Has a unique translator note)

3. "Frequency (secs):" (How often to speak the updates if enabled, a.k.a. the update interval. Has a unique translator note.)

4. "Restrict to:" (Which progress bars are of interest. Has a unique translator note.)

Should eliminate all the problems related to our having pieced together a single (functional) string from multiple labels and widgets.

I've committed the fix for bug 593203 which included the fix for this bug.

Joanmarie, I found some small problems.
1. When I navigating the speech page and pressing tab key, Orca perfect spokening enabled progress bar label (Progress Bar Updates label). But when I pressing a tab key and a shift+tab key combination, only spokening enabled check box.
Possible this is another bugreport topic, if yes, I opening new bugreport.

2. This is a translation specific problem:
Orca correct spokening the Frequency (secs): label and the spin button value, but not have a time unit value after the value. For example, beginner users possible not known what mean the 10 value with spin button (second, minute, hour).
The right, wished output is:
Frequency (secs): 10 second.
If you tell me what place I found the spin button value, I marking up translatable this spin button value and completed with the second after the value.
For example, I translated now this label with following in hungarian language:
msgid "Frequency (secs):"
msgstr "Felolvasás időtartama:"

Attila

(In reply to comment #8)
> Joanmarie, I found some small problems.
> 1. When I navigating the speech page and pressing tab key, Orca perfect
> spokening enabled progress bar label (Progress Bar Updates label). But when I
> pressing a tab key and a shift+tab key combination, only spokening enabled
> check box.

This was done on purpose. There are a group of progress bar related controls. When you first move into that group, Orca speaks the Progress Bar Updates label. When you move into another group, Orca will speak that group's label. Therefore, it is assumed that you know that you're in the Progress Bar Updates group and that it is unnecessary (and undesirable, because it's "chatty") to continue to repeat that fact as you Tab amongst the items in that group. If you are on the 'enabled' checkbox for in the Progress Bar Updates group, what you can enable/disable are Progress Bar Updates. :-)

> 2. This is a translation specific problem:
> Orca correct spokening the Frequency (secs): label and the spin button value,
> but not have a time unit value after the value. For example, beginner users
> possible not known what mean the 10 value with spin button (second, minute,
> hour).

'secs' is an abbreviation for seconds. So the full initial label is essentially 'Frequency in seconds'. Thus the unit is seconds and not minutes or hours.

> If you tell me what place I found the spin button value, I marking up
> translatable this spin button value and completed with the second after the
> value.

Spin buttons have generated values. In other words, you specify the minimum, maximum, etc. and those numbers appear at runtime. They are not all written out in a file somewhere where you can translate them into something else.

So.... I'm not sure what I can and/or should do here....

Joanmarye, you wroted:
"This was done on purpose. There are a group of progress bar related controls.
When you first move into that group, Orca speaks the Progress Bar Updates
label. When you move into another group, Orca will speak that group's label."
Yes, this is correct works with the progress bar time spin button and progress bar restriction combo boxes with Tab and Shift+tab key. But not working the first control.
Try following:
Navigate the second progress bar control, and press the Shift+tab key combination. You not hear the label, only the Enabled checkbox.

If you navigate the restrict progress bar updates combo box and press Shift+tab key combination, you will be correct hear the spin button label.

You wroted:
"'secs' is an abbreviation for seconds. So the full initial label is essentially
'Frequency in seconds'. Thus the unit is seconds and not minutes or hours.

> If you tell me what place I found the spin button value, I marking up
> translatable this spin button value and completed with the second after the
> value."
Thank you, this problem is solved. :-):-) I am wrong hear the english label when I translated.

Attila

(In reply to comment #10)
> Try following:
> Navigate the second progress bar control, and press the Shift+tab key
> combination. You not hear the label, only the Enabled checkbox.

Right. That's what I was talking about. When you first Tab into the group, Orca tells you that you're in that group and speaks "Progress Bar Updates." Then when you press Tab you are, as you say, in the second progress bar control. So we don't repeat the label. When you shift+tab from the second progress bar control to the first progress bar control (enabled), you are still in the progress bar updates group. So you haven't changed groups. Therefore, we don't announce a new group. What is on the screen is the word 'enabled'.
 
> If you navigate the restrict progress bar updates combo box and press Shift+tab
> key combination, you will be correct hear the spin button label.

The spin button label is 'Frequency (secs)'. And I hear that. I do not hear 'progress bar updates' again.

Joanmarye, you wroted:
"Right. That's what I was talking about. When you first Tab into the group, Orca
tells you that you're in that group and speaks "Progress Bar Updates." Then
when you press Tab you are, as you say, in the second progress bar control. So
we don't repeat the label. When you shift+tab from the second progress bar
control to the first progress bar control (enabled), you are still in the
progress bar updates group. So you haven't changed groups. Therefore, we don't
announce a new group. What is on the screen is the word 'enabled'."
I think understand now. Enabled is following message:
"#. Translators: This is an option in the Preferences dialog box related to the speaking of progress bar information. If checked, Orca will speak progress bar information.
#: ../src/orca/orca-setup.ui.h:80
msgid "Enable_d"
msgstr "Enge_délyezve"

Possible matter only I hear lot of time old progress bar controls, and missing old method. :-):-)
Oldest Orca versions always spokening the first progress bar control for example if I press Shift+Tab key with spin button control (progress bar updates time control).

But I known, this modification is need with another bug fix.

The main problem is if the very beginner users do this navigation steps with we talking, possible not known (or not remember) what enabled the "enabled" checkbox (or engedélyezve hungarian translated check box), because not hear the group label, only hear again the group label when going for example the table row speech control and going back the enabled check box (first progressbar update control). For example, where am I spokening only the check box text with the first progress bar control (Enabled with english).
Or only workaround have: using long text with translation languages?

Attila
> If you navigate the restrict progress bar updates combo box and press Shift+tab
> key combination, you will be correct hear the spin button label.

Understood. Prior to the change, the "progress bar update" related text was repeated from control to control.

Will, please advise as to what you would like me to do here. Thanks!

I think the new form is fine and would advise not artificially lengthening the string in translated text.  The user should also be able to press the "Where Am I" key to get the full context in the event they've forgotten where they are.  So, I'd propose re-closing this bug without further changes.

Will, not matter if the english users for example hear only the "enabled" check box message only if do  the where am I or detayled where am I function with first progress bar update control?
If this is not matter, and you don't need do any changes, reclose the bug, I using longer translation and solving the problem with hungarian users only, I agree your openion.

Attila

Oh darn....I thought I remembered the "Where Am I" as something that would also give you hierarchical information (e.g., the names of the things containing the object).  Joanie did we end up removing this on purpose?

(In reply to comment #15)
> If this is not matter, and you don't need do any changes, reclose the bug, I
> using longer translation and solving the problem with hungarian users only, I
> agree your openion.

I advise not creating additional context in the translations.  That is, using something like "Enable progress bar updates" for "Enable".  This will cause problems down the road if we use the "Enable" string somewhere else.

BTW, what do you do about the buttons under the "Selection Indicator" and "Hyperlink Indicator" sections on the "Braille" tab?  These have identical names, and the name of the panel ("Selection Indicator" and "Hyperlink Indicator") are what are used to disambiguate them.

(In reply to comment #16)
> Oh darn....I thought I remembered the "Where Am I" as something that would also
> give you hierarchical information (e.g., the names of the things containing the
> object).  Joanie did we end up removing this on purpose?

Not that I recall. We're still getting the group/panel label for radio buttons so something might have been broken along the way with where am I that we didn't notice.

Created attachment 151381 [details]
This is a debug.out file, see my comment what can I modelling.

I don't no this debug.out file help you, I hope.
I modelling following problem with this debug.out file:
For example, the very beginner blind Orca user going the Orca preferences gui window, and try look the speech page. When navigating the Tab key the Speech page controls, first he hear correct the Progress bar control label for first control, and hear the enabled check box and the state (now is checked).
After this, the user press a Tab key, and a shift+tab key, because for example he forgot toggle the control state. But, when the user pressing the Shift+Tab key, hear only "Enabled Checkbox Checked" message. Because for example he not remember what toggling this check box, not matter, pressing where am I or detailed where am I key command, because some time help he repeat entire control information with some situations (for example radio buttons).
But, the matter is following: he hear only "enabled check box checked" message with first progress bar control. And he ask: what? What enabled this check box? :-):-)

For example, in Braille page, I not see this problem with new designed form, but in Braille page more controls using radio button groups, and in progress bar control is don't possible using radio button control, because this is unneed.
Not possible do always Orca spokening the group label when the caret positioning the first progress bar control (enable/disable check box)?

Attila

(In reply to comment #19)
> Created an attachment (id=151381) [details]
> key, hear only "Enabled Checkbox Checked" message. Because for example he not
> remember what toggling this check box, not matter, pressing where am I or
> detailed where am I key command, because some time help he repeat entire
> control information with some situations (for example radio buttons).
> But, the matter is following: he hear only "enabled check box checked" message
> with first progress bar control. And he ask: what? What enabled this check box?
> :-):-)

This is by design -- we want to eliminate the amount of chattiness Orca has when speaking things so as not to chat too much when chatting about the items that Orca is chatting about because too much chattiness ends up saying too much and the user ends up getting annoyed that the machine is too chatty and wishes the machine would not be so chatty so by default we don't have Orca chat too much and this makes users happier because Orca is not so chatty, especially when it doesn't prefix all its chatty speech with the same exact chatty text when the user moves from item to item because that kind of chattiness is the worst of all since it ends up being redundant chatty information that causes the user to have to listen to the chattiness before Orca chats about the information that is most important.  ;-)

So, when you enter a group of controls that are under a common section with a label, Orca will speak the section label when you enter the section.  But, as you arrow around the items within the section, Orca will not re-speak the label of the section.  This provides a less chatty and more efficient means to navigate controls.

If the user is ever curious about where they are, the "Where Am I" feature is supposed to give them this information.  So, "Where Am I" *should* speak the label of the section along with the name of the item.  As mentioned in Comment #18, this functionality seems to have changed -- "Where Am I" is no longer speaking the label of the section for some reason.  I'm not sure if this was the inadvertent result of doing something else (e.g., maybe not speaking content in Where Am I in Firefox or something), and will need to dig into the code.

(In reply to comment #20)
> If the user is ever curious about where they are, the "Where Am I" feature is
> supposed to give them this information.

I have just opened bug 607042 for this issue.

This bug is, as I understand it, fixed -- in other words, the reported problem was that we had two strings which were getting combined to generate a single, functional label. We no longer have two strings which are getting combined to generate a single, functional label.

There are one to two additional issues that are not this bug, but were raised in this bug:

1. Where Am I, which could and should be used when a user is disoriented/confused about the purpose and/or location of a particular widget, isn't functioning as expected. That is bug 60742.

2. Some users might want an extreme amount of information spoken because they have a hard time keeping track of where they are. If that is indeed deemed desirable, an enhancement request could be opened.

Because there is nothing more that needs to be done with respect to this bug, I am re-closing it as FIXED.