After an evaluation, GNOME has moved from Bugzilla to GitLab. Learn more about GitLab.
No new issues can be reported in GNOME Bugzilla anymore.
To report an issue in a GNOME project, go to GNOME GitLab.
Do not go to GNOME Gitlab for: Bluefish, Doxygen, GnuCash, GStreamer, java-gnome, LDTP, NetworkManager, Tomboy.
Bug 582098 - Please kill the black triangle between menu items
Please kill the black triangle between menu items
Status: RESOLVED OBSOLETE
Product: yelp-xsl
Classification: Core
Component: General
2.31.x
Other Linux
: Normal normal
: ---
Assigned To: Yelp maintainers
Yelp maintainers
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2009-05-10 21:55 UTC by Gabor Kelemen
Modified: 2018-05-22 12:45 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: 2.25/2.26



Description Gabor Kelemen 2009-05-10 21:55:02 UTC
In bug #575614, we discussed how to make accessible the ▸ (U+25B8 BLACK RIGHT-POINTING SMALL TRIANGLE) character, which stands between menu items in the documentation. The solution was to speak "black right pointing small triangle", which is too long and not very user friendly. Would it be possible to replace this with → (U+2192, RIGHTWARDS ARROW)? This looks somewhat similar, and "right arrow", altough not perfect, sounds a lot better in speech.
Comment 1 Shaun McCance 2009-05-11 01:34:58 UTC
I'm not terribly opposed to changing what we use for the arrow, but couldn't we be doing a lot better here?  I know that, if I were reading the documentation to somebody, I wouldn't even speak the arrow.  I'd probably just insert a pause in my speech.

We have complete control over how the DocBook is turned into HTML and the CSS that goes along with it.  So basically anything that could be made better with CSS, we can do.  I know CSS has numerous properties designed for aural agents.  Surely we can make effective use of those.

The reason I haven't done so is that I have no idea what users of screenreaders actually want.  I would love to sit down with a member of our accessibility team to figure this out.
Comment 2 Shaun McCance 2009-06-03 03:24:50 UTC
I'd like more input on this please.

Willie, you said 'Potentially, one could attempt to create a custom script that attempts to interpret the CSS to guess what word(s) should be used to speak a given symbol, assuming "menuchoice" is a well known tag.'  I have complete and total control over the HTML output (except on documents that don't use DocBook properly, like *ahem* Evolution).  I will gladly stuff tons of aural CSS into the output.

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/aural.html

Does Orca support this when speaking an HTML file?
Comment 3 Willie Walker 2009-07-27 23:56:28 UTC
(In reply to comment #2)
> I'd like more input on this please.

Sorry for the delay.  :-(

> Willie, you said 'Potentially, one could attempt to create a custom script that
> attempts to interpret the CSS to guess what word(s) should be used to speak a
> given symbol, assuming "menuchoice" is a well known tag.'  I have complete and
> total control over the HTML output (except on documents that don't use DocBook
> properly, like *ahem* Evolution).  I will gladly stuff tons of aural CSS into
> the output.
> 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/aural.html
> 
> Does Orca support this when speaking an HTML file?

Orca uses ACSS internally to handle voice selection, but it doesn't parse HTML output.  Instead, Orca gets its view of the browser via the AT-SPI implementation provided by Gecko.  In any case, ACSS is more about specifying speech parameters (e.g., pitch, rate, etc.) and has little to do with the textual content itself.

The problem at hand is how to interpret the little black triangle under various conditions, much like the problem of interpreting the use of 'o' as a bullet vs. a letter vs. a donut vs. the actual letter.

I think this particular problem might need a fair amount of exploration, which might be interesting, but it may also consume a lot of time better spent elsewhere. :-)  If you were able to change the output to use the right arrow character, however, we might reach an acceptable conclusion quickly.  Is this possible, or does DocBook make this troublesome?
Comment 4 GNOME Infrastructure Team 2018-05-22 12:45:04 UTC
-- GitLab Migration Automatic Message --

This bug has been migrated to GNOME's GitLab instance and has been closed from further activity.

You can subscribe and participate further through the new bug through this link to our GitLab instance: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/yelp-xsl/issues/13.