GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 56108
"=" is a bad keyboard shortcut...
Last modified: 2004-12-22 21:47:04 UTC
The default keyboard shortcut for "zoom in" is Ctrl+=, and this does not work on a Swedish layout: "=" is Shift+0 on a Swedish keyboard, and Ctrl+Shift+0 does not work for zooming in in the GIMP. Ctrl+- however, zoom out, does work. This is not a composed key on Swedish keyboards. I checked my list of keyboard layouts, and Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Switzerland, Spain, Germany, also have "=" on some Shift combo. I've also had verification that it does not indeed work on an Italian layout either.
The default for zoom in should be just =, not ctrl+=. The mnemonic for this is that its on the same key as +, but used so commonly that you shouldn't need to use any modifiers to get it. Does pressing = zoom in for you? If so I think this bug can be closed. Austin
Oh. No, neither pressing "0" nor Shift+0 ("=") does work.
Very strange indeed! This may be a bug in gtk, rather than the gimp. As a work-around, you can re-bind the keyboard shortcut by going to the zoom menu (<Image> / View / Zoom In) and while the mouse is over the menu option, type the key combination you want for zoom in. The menu should update with this new combination, and it should be saved when you quit the gimp. I'll leave this bug open; perhaps someone who knows more about gtks accelerators can help. Austin
Reassinging to current CVS because it won't be fixed in 1.2.x
This really is a problem on new installations on non-US-systems. Although it is quite obvious to change I'd like to see some code that initially assigns zoom-in to "+" on European keyboards. We probably could make this depend on the LC_* settings, mitch?
Having looked at a keyboard layout chart with some international layouts, "+" is probably a bad shortcut for Great Britain, Switzerland, France, and Belgium (it's a shift-composed key on those). On the Great Britain, France, and Belgium layouts, "=" can be used instead. On the Switzerland layout, neither of "=" nor "+" are regular keys. "$", on the other hand, is a regular key and has a prominent placement. "+" would probably be a good shortcut for Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, and Germany (it's a regular key on all these layouts).
I should probably add that one should note that some countries share the exact same layout - this is the case for Sweden and Finland, for example. I don't know about other European layouts than the ones I have mentioned above, but I think "+" is a safe default for many of them.
*** Bug 63753 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
I really understand why Apple use the same keyboard layout for Europe and America (and probably almost everywhere else). How do other Operating Systems handle zoom keybindings in your locale? (Mac/Windows/Solaris/others) http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/draft_hig/standard-menus.html#menu-standard-view The Gnome2 HIG suggests using Zoom In Ctrl++ Zoom Out Ctrl+- Zoom Normal Ctrl+= I hope the Gimp plans to follow the guidelines (but i dont follow gimp development so i can only hope) using just the single character + on its own instead of the combination Ctrl and + is unlikely to be accepted, by the Gnome2 HIG does not recommend using single letter modifiers and for consistancy uses some sort of Ctrl + Shift + Char combination. Perhaps they might go for something like 'Shift and +' that is use Shift as the modifier instead of Ctrl, or maybe not ... irc.gnome.org #usability would be a good place to discuss this with people who know about usuability maybe get them to add more feedback on this bug report. you might consider tweaking the summary to say "=" is a bad keyboard shortcut for europeans maybe the usability keynav and L10N keywords should be added?
> I really understand why Apple use the same keyboard layout for Europe > and America (and probably almost everywhere else). Since when do they? I just had a look at Apple and Sun keyboards around here and all have the same Swedish layout with Shift+0 for "=". > How do other Operating Systems handle zoom keybindings in your > locale? Internet Explorer has no access keys for zooming. Paint has (Ctrl+PageUp/PageDown). Mozilla uses Ctrl++ and Ctrl+- and no access key for normal size. > you might consider tweaking the summary to say > "=" is a bad keyboard shortcut for europeans These layouts are not only used in Europe. > maybe the usability keynav and L10N keywords should be added? Absolutely.
Even Mozilla has adopted these shortcuts: Command Windows Linux Zoom Text Smaller Ctrl+- (minus sign) Ctrl+- (minus sign) Zoom Text Larger Ctrl+= (plus sign) Ctrl+= (plus sign) I'm not sure but GTK+-2.0 might fix the problem that '=' doesn't work if you have to use 'Shift' to get to it. Someone with a non-US keyboard layout should test this and if possible also tell us how Mozilla solves this problem (or doesn't solve it).
> Even Mozilla has adopted these shortcuts: > > Command Windows Linux > Zoom Text Smaller Ctrl+- (minus sign) Ctrl+- (minus sign) > Zoom Text Larger Ctrl+= (plus sign) Ctrl+= (plus sign) Not in Mozilla 1.0.1, in which I checked. What version are you using?
At the moment I use Mozilla-1.0.0. The shortcuts are described here: http://www.mozilla.org/docs/end-user/moz_shortcuts.html and they surely work for me.
In my copy of Mozilla 1.0.1 (Linux), they are still Ctrl++ and Ctrl+- respectively, regardless of what that page says.
The default shortcut in Mozilla is Ctrl-= just like the documentation states. They only added Ctrl-+ as an alternative so it works for non-US keyboard layouts as well. Try it, at least for me, both shortcuts work.
> The default shortcut in Mozilla is Ctrl-= just like the documentation > states. They only added Ctrl-+ as an alternative so it works for > non-US keyboard layouts as well. Try it, at least for me, both > shortcuts work. It doesn't work here. Only Ctrl++ and Ctrl+- work here (with Swedish layout). Also, Ctrl++ is the shortcut that's listed in the menu (see the screenshot).
Created attachment 10898 [details] Screenshot of Mozilla zoom menu
Using = for "Zoom In" is definitely inintuitive. Since GTK*-2.x handles keyboard shortcuts with modifiers, let's change it to '+'. 2003-05-23 Sven Neumann <sven@gimp.org> * docs/keybindings.txt * app/gui/image-menu.c (image_menu_entries): changed the default shortcut for "Zoom In" to '+'. Fixes bug #56108.
> inintuitive i assume that was a typo and you meant unintuitive While I agree that Ctrl++ is the best answer and is what should appear in the menu, i think the HIG is misguided when it suggests using Ctlr+= for Zoom Normal (1:1). I think Ctrl+= should also Zoom in. The disadvantage is that you have one less keybinding but the advantage is that users with + and = on the same key dont have to even think about the fact that + is the same as Shift+=.