GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 429331
make it easier to repeat actions
Last modified: 2007-04-20 07:37:23 UTC
The menu structure in gimp 2.3.x has drastically improved - congratulations. But what I still miss is in the user interface is a user configurable favorites menu (I miss it since gimp 1.x). Other graphics applications have a user configurable toolbar (which is an alternative to this proposal), gimp has nothing similar. Of course Gimp doesn't need to mimic the user interface of other graphics apps but a place where you have access to your most used tasks is very helpful. Every user has her/his own favorite actions s/he uses again and again/quite often - beginners often only three to four actions, advanced users more of course. Instead of going through the whole menu you could just open your favorites menu to find those tasks very quickly. I am sure that would also make it a lot easier for newbies to overcome their inhibitions concerning gimp (which are still very high as I hear nearly every day). I'm sure you will argue that one doesn't have to go through the whole menu to find a task, one simply could perform a key shortcut. But that's not the same. Not only do you have to remember all those keys, you also don't have an overview of "your" actions and one is still beaten, stunned and paralyzed by the amount of actions gimp offers. Newbies tend to use the mouse a lot more often and IMHO a program is easier to handle for everyone if you are not forced to always change between mouse and keyboard. There are several actions I could imagine for adding new entries to that menu: 1. the "quick menu" (no need to call it favorites, that sounds so much like msie ;) ) could also contain an "add new" entry: after pressing the add button one could either - choose from an overview of all possible actions - open the menu and the next entry you choose after pressing the add button appears in your quick menu - or the next entries you choose while pressing ctrl or whatsoever are chosen until you do something to interrupt like clicking somewhere outside the menu - than all chosen entries are copied into the favorites menu 2. (additionally) you could handle it similar to the shortcut creation: instead of hovering over the menu entry and pressing the desired shortcut you hover over the menu entry and press a certain key combination to add that entry to the quick actions. In 2004 I've made a mockup of the gimp interface with a favorites menu: http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5158/gimpmockupdw1.jpg It's german but I hope you'll see what I mean. (BTW it's funny: the extra colors menu and the consolidation of filters and script-fu menu shown in the mockup have been implemented in gimp 2.3.x).
Having evaluated, analysed and redesigned toolbars for other projects, I can report that these are trying to compensate for bad UI design in other areas. See (open/ms) office. And I say trying, not achieving. Usually it is a better plan to identify what one is trying to compensate for, and to redesign that. Then the need for toolbars or a user-made-menu either disappears, or gets a totally different dimension. So Janet, since this is your very personal enhancement request, can you help us to identify why and where you specifically need this? Thanks.
Thanks for your answer. It sure has a lot to do with non-optimal UI design. I rarely use the keyboard in a graphics program (I'd love to use two trackballs instead, one for left, one for right hand - alas that's not supported but that's no gimp problem ;) ) so I have to go through the menu to repeat actions. There is a nice function for the filters menu that shows the last used filter at the top and a submenu with all last used filters. I wish this would also be implemented for the picture, layers and colors menu - or any gimp menu. If those last actions where persistent and would also be shown after closing and reopening gimp - a favorites menu or toolbar nearly would be substituted. I say nearly because the lesser clicks to get to an action the better. And sometimes users don't agree with developers where to best find certain actions. After years of gimp usage I still run into the selection menu first when I want to outline a selection (instead of going to the Edit menu - I know it's there but when I concentrate on a picture I don't think of it).
OK, we're getting closer to the root of the problem. The first thing we can do for Janet is that we drive the UI in a direction where one can do things more hands-on, by grabbing, moving and pushing things and less by selecting a menu entry. That will solve part of the problem. Second I see that Janet mentions repeating actions. I take that to mean that one makes an adjustment to the image, but it is not perfect, so one (chooses Undo and) makes the adjustment again. In the future we will be able to present an interface where one sees the previous adjustments to an image, select one of them and can readjust the parameters to perfection. So Janet, we will be able to help you a lot in the future, I am sure you will love it. And without introducing new, non-standard solutions into the menu bar. ps: you point about selections is noted.
Janet makes a very good point here. We already offer a list of last-used plug-ins in our Filters menu and from a user interface point of view this is a somewhat dubious choice. Only plug-in actions are added here. Calling a core function doesn't add an entry to this history. But the user shouldn't have to care about whether a certain action is implemented in the core or as a plug-in. The reason we are currently only offering such a history only for plug-ins is that plug-ins can be called with their last-used values. This is not generally true for all core functions. But that's just an implementation detail and not a good reason from a users point of view.
Note for cross-reference: the older bug #133030 and its duplicates are about a customizable toolbar, which would provide the same functionality as described here, but with a slightly different user interface.
If this is indeed a request for a user configurable favorites menu, then yes, it's a duplicate. I saw this more as a request for having a history of actions similar to the plug-in history that we already offer. But the summary seems to focus much on the user-configurable part. We should probably close this as a duplicate then.
Comment #3: My bug report in the first place is about repeating actions. But not only to the same picture but to a lot of pictures. Let's say I have 10 pictures I want to modify - not in the same way but with the same actions. And maybe I have to close gimp in the meantime and want to go on editing the other day - I'd love to go to an actions history menu and choose the last used action from the day before. And of course second "grabbing, moving, pushing" :). If all this can be realized there's no real need for a user configurable toolbar or favorites menu. Comment #4: > But the user shouldn't have to care about whether a certain action is implemented in the core or as a plug-in. That's it: the recently used actions are a very fine feature - but from a user's view it is incomplete and the implementation inconsistent (that doesn't mean you should drop it! ;) ). Comment #6: > I saw this more as a request for having a history of actions similar to the plug-in history that we already offer. It is. The better the UI the lesser the need for such a favorites menu. No need for a favorites menu or a toolbar at all if the GUI offers the same or a better functionality. A better implementation of the actions history/ies would be a very appreciated solution. And if those histories were even persistant - no need for favorites at all. So no, in my mind it is not a duplicate :).
OK, I think we are converging here. The core of this request is now repeating some actions for different images/layers/selections. During our expert evaluation of GIMP we noticed that this requirement especially rises for producing graphics for websites, with a consistent style. The same gloss and shadow everywhere. We are now discussing the solution of a 'Repeat' menu, which is similar to the Redo function. It would probably merge in the Edit menu. But here is a deeper thought: with GEGL past actions will be something that one will see and be able to grab. I plan to try to create a concept where one can grab and apply a certain action again, to a different image/layer/selection. I say try, because it could work, or not, but I want to give it a shot. Title of this bug should be changed to: "make it easier to repeat actions"
This all boils down to bug #51937. The user interface is a little different but it's the same internal functionality. When we add the ability to repeat all actions, not only plug-ins, then we will effectively have a macro recorder and it will be easy to repeat actions. *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 51937 ***
Sorry, a macro recorder might be a nice addtion but is something completely different. It repeats pre-defined actions in a pre-defined order with pre-defined settings. That's absolutely *not* what this bug report is about. I don't want to record any actions to be performed in a certain way, in this case I just want to choose by myself (no automation!) from a menu of often/last used actions, not combinations of actions. The filters menu is a very good example - the only thing it needs as addition is a persistent history.
like Janet said. My analysis reaches exactly the same conclusion. This issue will be solved separately from macro recording.
It can't be solved differently. As I already said in comment #9, it's different from a users point of view, but under the hood it's the same thing. Both features depend on the same infrastructure (being able to record and repeat one or more actions).
It is just a pity that by expressing that is this bug is 'solved by' instead of 'depends on' 51937, we make it look for posterity that this type of interaction is best served by a macro recorder. I think we have now noticed that both users and interaction specialist react to this like 'no way.' So now that is also written down for posterity.