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Bug 302076 - 3.0 would be a good time to get rid of "Close" buttons
3.0 would be a good time to get rid of "Close" buttons
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: gnome-devel-docs
Classification: Applications
Component: hig
unspecified
Other All
: Normal enhancement
: ---
Assigned To: HIG Maintainers
HIG Maintainers
: 479541 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2005-04-26 17:43 UTC by Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)
Modified: 2020-12-04 18:20 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt) 2005-04-26 17:43:24 UTC
Distribution/Version: Ubuntu 5.04

When the HIG 1.0 was being written, it was quite common to use a window manager
other than Sawfish, and some of those window managers were pretty wild. A few
didn't even have close buttons in their title bars ... The world is a calmer
place now. Gnome doesn't have a GUI for choosing a window manager other than
Metacity, for the good reason that such a choice is irrelevant to most humans.
People can still use other window managers if they like, but if they do, they're
on their own. And the sort of people who go to the trouble of using window
managers like Ion without close buttons are the sort of people who can learn how
to use Ctrl+W, Alt+F4, or their WM's equivalent shortcut. They can. Really.

Which brings us to our problem: Instant-apply windows in Gnome have two close
buttons. One is labelled "X", the other labelled "Close". This has several
disadvantages.
*   Multiple similarly accessible methods of doing the same thing slow people
    down, because they wonder which one to use, or whether there's a functional
    difference between them.
*   The "Close" button wastes a lot of space -- it's often on a row all to
    itself, and when it's not, its usual neighbor is an overwrought Help button
    that could go elsewhere (e.g. at the top right).
*   Because an instant-apply window isn't a dialog, it's inappropriate for it
    to disppear with Enter or Escape (see also bug 302057), so it consumes an
    access key that then can't be used by any other control in any tab in any
    pane of the window.
*   The presence of a "Close" button along the bottom of non-modal instant-apply 
    windows robs Gnome of what would otherwise be a helpful visual cue, that
    being, "a row of labelled pushbuttons along the bottom of a window means
    that the window is modal".

For Gnome 3.0, I suggest getting rid of the "Close" buttons -- making the
interface simpler, removing ambiguity, saving space, allowing for better
accessibility, and making window modality more obvious.
Comment 1 Calum Benson 2005-05-20 13:11:44 UTC
FWIW, it was primarily our blind users who demanded a close button in dialogs in
the first place.  If anything's changed from their perspective (our screenreader
is certainly better now than it was then), I'd be happy to support your proposal.
Comment 2 bill.haneman 2005-05-20 13:16:11 UTC
There's also the issue of the size of the close target: in most themes the close
button is too small for people with even minor physical disabilities, or visual
difficulties.  The 'close' button helps by providing a larger, more obvious
target as well as by assisting blind users.  However blind users can easily
learn the window manager keyboard shortcut (Alt F4) for this, so in some ways
the physical disability and low-vision arguments are the stronger ones.
Comment 3 Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt) 2005-05-20 14:06:42 UTC
I see that's one of the features of the gnome-accessibility-themes -- enlarging
the title-bar close buttons. That seems like the right way to do it: let themes
enlarge the title-bar buttons for people who need that, instead of slowing
everyone else down by having multiple close buttons. (As a comparison, Mac OS X
makes much of its accessibility features, without having multiple close buttons
*or* letting you enlarge the title-bar buttons.)
Comment 4 korn 2005-05-20 15:33:12 UTC
Also doesn't ESC function in most dialogs to close them as well as Alt-F4?  I
don't think a close button is needed for accessibility.  I think users with
disabilities will have the same transition/expectation issues as users w/out
disabilities - they will wonder where it went and why, and will have that
learning curve to get over.  It perhaps hits blind users harder because it adds
to an already otherwise steep learning curve.  But this doesn't seem like a
sufficient reason to block this change if the UI gods have come to the
conclusion that it is an improvement.
Comment 5 bill.haneman 2005-05-20 15:36:28 UTC
'ESC' is bound to Cancel, where available.  It does NOT close dialogs without a
Cancel button.  It has been argued that it must NOT be bound to the 'CLOSE'
button (if present at all), because that inconsistency would create problems
since the user would not know reliably what the action of 'Esc' would be (does
it  revert and close, i.e. 'cancel', or just close i.e. 'ok' ?)
Comment 6 Christian Neumair 2005-11-17 20:08:09 UTC
I wonder whether this really offers many advantages. You won't save space, since
the "Help" button remains in the dialog.
Comment 7 Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt) 2005-11-18 21:01:49 UTC
As I said, the "Help" button in Gnome dialogs is overwrought, so its 
presence isn't really a good excuse for the space taken up by "Close". By 
comparison, in both Windows and Mac OS, Help buttons in dialogs are often 
much smaller. (And anyway, the most effective help for dialogs is short 
explanations under individual controls, not slow separate help windows.)
Comment 8 Calum Benson 2005-11-21 13:30:08 UTC
Don't entirely disagree... would also say, though, that short explanations under controls are great if you 
have one or two people writing all of them, but as soon as you let developers write their own (as you 
inevitably have to in this sort of environment), you end up with smatterings of bad English, differing ideas 
between apps about when text should be given and when it shouldn't, and inconsistencies in the style and 
terminology of the text itself, which makes lots of extra work for translators (particularly the ones using 
semi-automatic translation).  At least if it's all in Help files, there's not so much in-yer-face yuckiness, and 
it's all somewhat under the control of the GDP... I doubt they'd enjoy having to review the content of 
dozens of dialogs on top of their own documentation :/
Comment 9 Jon Dufresne 2006-06-17 01:11:30 UTC
I really think this would be a step in the right direction. It would make preference dialogs appear less cluttered, cleaner, and more to the point. I've always thought the double close aspect of the preference dialog to be redundant. I'm glad to see others agree.
Comment 10 Calum Benson 2009-07-27 19:05:14 UTC
FWIW, I just started a thread about the Close button issue on gnome-accessibility-list, to try and shed some light on the consensus of assistive technology users these days.

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2009-July/msg00014.html
Comment 11 Allan Day 2014-09-26 09:10:28 UTC
Totally agree with the bug report. The new HIG recommends a single close button for instant apply dialogs.
Comment 12 Allan Day 2014-09-26 10:12:25 UTC
*** Bug 479541 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***