GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 169451
stock delete icons are old style trash
Last modified: 2008-04-19 17:32:54 UTC
Please describe the problem: The stock delete icons in the default theme are an old, yucky trash can. We have a much nicer stock icon for trash which could be used. Steps to reproduce: Panel context menu, Nautilus file/folder context menu... Actual results: Expected results: Does this happen every time? Other information: cp 16x16/filesystems/gnome-fs-trash-full.png 16x16/stock/generic/stock_trash_full.png cp 24x24/filesystems/gnome-fs-trash-full.png 24x24/stock/generic/stock_trash_full.png cp 16x16/filesystems/gnome-fs-trash-empty.png 16x16/stock/generic/stock_delete.png cp 24x24/filesystems/gnome-fs-trash-empty.png 24x24/stock/generic/stock_delete.png Unfortunately, this doesn't fix stock_undelete. :-)
Rodney, can you hack up some makefile magic to symlink these? I will jump on the undelete one.
These icons shouldn't be the trash icon. They don't necessarily move items to the trash can. We need a new set of icons here. Jakub, the shredder metaphor we have in Tango now, is really nice. Any way we could get something similar in here? Not sure what we would do to replace the undelete icon though.
Maybe undelete would be a document taped together from the shredded stripes? ;) I apologise for a lame joke.
Any hope to fix this? Could help with bug # 325945. (PS edit-delete should not be a trash, of course)
Created attachment 69506 [details] Edit delete icons in classic red cross layout Edit delete icons using the classic x red icon at 16, 22 and SVG. Try search "delete icon" on google images: you'll find a lot of red x-cross icons. Maybe the x-cross is a little fat.
Created attachment 69507 [details] A preview of submitted icons
I don't like reusing the X metaphor so much. We use it for "close", and making it red and using it for "delete" also, seems conflicting. I would much rather have a good metaphor for this. Also, your icons have the shadow on top of the object, rather than behind it, and there's no 32x32. And yes, the X is a bit flat. It looks simply like a large + rotated 45 degrees.
*** Bug 332448 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
I think the shredder metaphor is HORRENDOUS, and won't be grasped by 99.999% of the world's population. I think a shredder is, if anything, solely a USA pop culture icon, and not a recognisable item that appears in the daily life of anybody almost anywhere in the world. On top of that, the Tango image for a shredder is horrendous, unless you are already expecting to find a shredder. It looks a lot more as an unfinished image of a manual typewriter. The trashcan was fine. If the icon was ugly, then it should've been replaced by a nice looking trashcan, not an nondescript unidentifiable contraption.
The trashcan is horrendous. It's fine for you because you're used to it being a trash can. It doesn't mean it's the best metaphor. The metaphor needs to be something that doesn't conflict with other metaphors. The Tango shredder may not be the best metaphor either, but it's better than a trash can. We need an icon that isn't a trash can.
This is the shredder here: http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Gallery ? I think at the small size (as it would be on a menu) it looks either like a printer mangling paper, or a sort of blue octopus ;) What about just the page ripped at the bottom, without the box representing the shredder? (Yes, I know a proposal would have to back via Tango, just thinking aloud here.)
We might need an icon that is better than a trash can, but we definitely do not need an icon that is a schredder. I totally disagree that it is a better metaphor than a traschcan, because: A) In Gnome, it shreds nothing, only drops things in the .... ¿trashcan? B) Most people in the world, don't know what a shredder is, even in highly developed parts of highly developed pars of the world. Maybe seen once in a movie, really, really far out of the daily experience. So if the trashcan/wastepaper basket is a bad metaphor (to which I disagree) we will have to find something better. The shredder is really a no-go (even without the WTF-is-that problem the current rendering has).
(In reply to comment #12) > We might need an icon that is better than a trash can, but we definitely do not > need an icon that is a schredder. I totally disagree that it is a better > metaphor than a traschcan, because: > > A) In Gnome, it shreds nothing, only drops things in the .... ¿trashcan? When you delete text in gedit or some other similar application, it does not go into the trash can. You can't undelete it. Things that move to the trash using the trash can is fine, but that should be labelled as "Move to Trash" and not "Delete." Delete is more final. > B) Most people in the world, don't know what a shredder is, even in highly > developed parts of highly developed pars of the world. Maybe seen once in a > movie, really, really far out of the daily experience. Most people in the world don't know what a floppy disk is either. Most people in the world also don't have access to computers. > So if the trashcan/wastepaper basket is a bad metaphor (to which I disagree) we > will have to find something better. The shredder is really a no-go (even > without the WTF-is-that problem the current rendering has). The shredder isn't in GNOME. It's in Tango. It's a non-issue. Tango's metaphors aren't a final end-all in its curent state. We are using Tango to facitilitate the need to experiment with new metaphors. The shredder may not be the best, but it's better than the trash can or (/) icon, for Delete.
> When you delete text in gedit or some other similar application, it does not > go into the trash can. You can't undelete it. Things that move to the trash > using the trash can is fine, but that should be labelled as "Move to Trash" > and not "Delete." Delete is more final. If the provisionality or definitiveness of deletion must be made obvious by the icon (which is a very good idea), then we obviously need two different icons. If the trashcan icon does not cut it with gedit, then the shredder doesn't cut it either for undeletable deletions such as Evolutions, or undoable deletes such as, hey, gedit's! > Most people in the world don't know what a floppy disk is either. Most people > in the world also don't have access to computers. Without computers, whether deletions are provisional or permanent is surely not one of their most pressing problems, that is true. However, I'm speaking about 99.99% of people USING computers who have never touched a shredder in their life, and have not seen it but in american movies. Please, do understand people dispose of things in something like a wire basket, and maybe rip them in small bits at times, but shredders are not in common use an are not an easily recognisable image (especially the one in Tango). > The shredder isn't in GNOME. It's in Tango. It's a non-issue. Tango's > metaphors aren't a final end-all in its curent state. We are using Tango to > facitilitate the need to experiment with new metaphors. Yeah, I also thought it was not all written in stone; that's why I sent these messages. Experiments are great, even when they fail you gain knowledge. But the shredder is a failed experiment. > The shredder may not be the best, but it's better than the trash can or (/) > icon, for Delete. It is not (I agree) , and it is not (I disagree). I agree also that the trash can or red cross icons are not the best possible metaphors.
I was playing with Rhythmbox and discovered a new incarnation of the evil shredder icon. It is in the "edit" menu, illustrating the purpose of the entry "Move to Trashcan". And it had this new, simplified appearance, that stunned at first sight, then appeared as a square jellyfish cousin of Bob Sponge, and only after some study evidenced itself as a simplified version of the icon in the toolbar which depicts a cubist vision of a shredder. Now, please tell me: What is the problem with a trashcan icon illustrating an entry named "MOVE TO TRASHCAN"? Why does an entry named "move to trashcan" have to be illustrated by a small shredder, or a small, square, jellyfish?
(In reply to comment #15) > I was playing with Rhythmbox and discovered a new incarnation of the evil > shredder icon. It is in the "edit" menu, illustrating the purpose of the entry > "Move to Trashcan". And it had this new, simplified appearance, that stunned at > first sight, then appeared as a square jellyfish cousin of Bob Sponge, and only > after some study evidenced itself as a simplified version of the icon in the > toolbar which depicts a cubist vision of a shredder. But this is an issue in Rhythmbox: developers are using "edit-delete" named icon where "trash" is more appropriate. It's not an issue with metaphoras or in gnome-icon-theme > Now, please tell me: What is the problem with a trashcan icon illustrating an > entry named "MOVE TO TRASHCAN"? None. I'll open a bug for Rhyhmbox. But, let me repeat it, this is a rhythmbox bug, not an issue with shredder/not shredder metaphor for edit-delete action. PS OK, you don't like the shredder metaphor and maybe it's not so good. There are no shredder icons in GNOME theme, it's in Tango!!! PPS If you change your icon theme from Tango to GNOME, you will see a little trashcan icon near the "Move to Trash" menu entry in Rhythmbox. So the application is good when the icon theme chooses a trashcan for "edit-delete" action, but it's totally wrong when the icon theme has a different metaphor. This behavior should suggest us that * edit-delete should represent something about "delete" * trashcan is not good metaphor for edit-delete 'cause developers could use the icon not for its name or scope, but for its appearance I hope this could end this debate. Now, any new idea about edit-delete icon?
I'm closing this as the stock icons in gtk+ are now in the tango style. Issues with metaphor should be opened in a bug against gtk+, I think.