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Bug 138260 - Enh: XDS support for GtkFileChooser
Enh: XDS support for GtkFileChooser
Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX
Product: gtk+
Classification: Platform
Component: Widget: GtkFileChooser
2.5.x
Other Linux
: Normal enhancement
: future
Assigned To: gtk-bugs
gtk-bugs
: 140228 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2004-03-26 23:48 UTC by Luke Hutchison
Modified: 2005-03-27 20:59 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Luke Hutchison 2004-03-26 23:48:45 UTC
It would be really nice if GtkFileSelector supported XDS by default, by having a
file icon displayed that shows the icon corresponding to the current save
filetype.  XDS is described here:

http://www.newplanetsoftware.com/xds/

I had heard that the GTK-2.4 file selector would support this, but I can't find
any recent discussion of this.

XDS makes the desktop much more usable, because open file manager windows are
useful for saving (and not just loading) files; and because you can
drag-and-drop to other applications, without having to save to intermediate
files.  It would be nice if it were supported in all applications by making it a
standard feature of the File Chooser dialog, and then using the GtkFileSystem
mechanism to actually wrap the XDS protocol, so that it is transparent to the
application.

Thanks!
Comment 1 Luke Hutchison 2004-03-26 23:56:09 UTC
N.B. It appears that this was the idea behind the file icons shown in the
screenshots at the bottom of Seth's page:

http://www.gnome.org/~seth/filechooser-spec/

This is a nice idea -- combining the file type selection widget and the file
icon.   (N.B. It might be nice to actually show the file extension that will be
appended after the "Name" field, too, to show the user that what they type in
will have an extension added to it -- that's a separate issue from XDS, but it
is tied to setting the correct icon type, based on the save file type.)
Comment 2 Federico Mena Quintero 2004-03-27 00:40:39 UTC
See bug #51051 for the original request in GtkFileSelection.  I'm not marking
this as duplicate because this refers to GtkFileChooser. 
Comment 3 Federico Mena Quintero 2004-03-27 00:44:19 UTC
Note that the purpose of XDS is to remove file chooser dialogs altogether.  I
don't think it makes sense to put a drag-thingy in GtkFileChooserDialog; that
thing should be in the application's document window.
Comment 4 Luke Hutchison 2004-03-27 04:20:59 UTC
I agree that the purpose of XDS is to remove file chooser dialogs.  But should
each application have an XDS drag source icon always visible?  That doesn't seem
to be a good UI design (it doesn't tie the icon to what is going to be saved --
e.g. if there is a selection, does the drag source icon now only save the
selection, or the entire document?  There needs to be more feedback.)

You get more of a conceptual tie between the icon and the document contents if
the user intiates a save action, which pops up a window with an icon in it. 
Perhaps the default save-mechanism could be XDS, and there could be a "turn-key"
icon that opens  the "Save in folder" combobox, and then another one that opens
up "Browse for other folders"?  That seems like a natural progression to me,
even though it introduces an extra step if you want to browse for a directory. 
Having XDS saving as a default is actually really nice when you have a file
manager that supports it -- it makes the file manager a much more integral part
of the desktop experience, because users are more likely to actually use the
file manager.

If there was a hide/unhide icon for "Save in folder", then once the folder
widget is shown, the XDS icon wouldn't be needed any more, so it could be
greyed-out.
Comment 5 Owen Taylor 2004-03-27 15:18:02 UTC
Federico - If you don't think that there should be a drag icon in the file 
chooser, then shouldn't we resolve this bug? (And if you don't want
to reinterpret 51051 to refer to GtkFileChooser, then it certainly
needs to be WONTFIX'ed)
Comment 6 Luke Hutchison 2004-03-27 16:12:11 UTC
Whether or not it's in the file chooser, I believe there should be a
toolkit-supported mechanism for adding XDS support to an application, so that
apps don't all do it differently, and in fact so that apps don't even have to
implement anything special to support it (as long as they support saving to an
arbitrary GtkFileSystem).

Perhaps some usability studies could be done to figure out the best way to
accomplish this, UI-wise, and to see if having the icon in the FileChooser is
actually a bad thing for the user?

As a qualifier, I used a real OS with XDS-like saving for several years (Acorn
RISC OS), and it really does increase your productivity, especially when you can
drag-save between applications.  If an XDS icon isn't included in the File
Chooser, I hope this feature is not just forgotten about, but that an
alternative toolkit-level mechanism is provided to give all GTK apps this
functionality.
Comment 7 Federico Mena Quintero 2004-03-29 18:34:29 UTC
Indeed this needs discussion, but the file chooser is not the place to put the
XDS icon.  Please feel free to take it to the usability@gnome.org mailing list.

GtkFileSystem is an internal API and is not visible by applications.  It is not
a VFS for general use; it is just an internal abstraction for use by GtkFileChooser.
Comment 8 Federico Mena Quintero 2004-04-16 16:56:29 UTC
*** Bug 140228 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 9 Sven Neumann 2005-03-25 17:26:10 UTC
As a slightly related remark, GIMP in CVS does now support XDS and allows to
save files by dragging out of the Images dialog or from the active-image preview
in the toolbox. Now all we need is a commonly available file-manager to accept
these drags...
Comment 10 Sven Neumann 2005-03-26 23:18:08 UTC
IMO it does make sense to add an XDS save icon to the file-chooser. XDS doesn't
work for unnamed documents, it seems to require a leafname (basename) to be
specified. The file-chooser provides an entry to set the filename. It would thus
be a good place to add a source for XDS drags.

May I reopen the bug-report if I provide a patch that implements this?
Comment 11 Luke Hutchison 2005-03-26 23:26:30 UTC
I agree that the File Chooser is the best place for the XDS icon.  The reason is
that every program that can create and save a document of some form implements a
call to the File Chooser API.  Saving, whether by drag-drop or by using a File
Chooser window, should be initiated by the same action from the point of view of
the user.  Otherwise you have two very different ways of initiating a file save
operation.  Also, every program has to come up with a way of saving (e.g. GIMP
uses image preview icons; what would Inkscape uses, given that it doesn't have
the equivalent of an image preview icon anywhere?  What about gedit, which
doesn't even have the concept of an image preview?).  The number and variety of
"solutions" that different developers produce for their own program could get
out of control, GNOME-1.x-style.

It would also be nice to actually see the icon of the file type that is being
saved in the Save dialog, as a visual reminder as to the format the document is
being saved in.  The user would not even have to know that the icon was
draggable, but they could drag it if they knew it was.

Alternatively, there could be a button in the Save dialog that says something
like "Drag-save", that closed the Save dialog and opened a smaller window with a
file icon and filename field in, from which the XDS save could be initiated. 
However I like the filetype icon being in the Save dialog itself, as it serves
additional purposes there, indicating visually what the save format is.
Comment 12 Sven Neumann 2005-03-26 23:29:42 UTC
BTW, the file-chooser spec as refered to in comment #1 moved to
http://www.gnome.org/~seth/designs/filechooser-spec/