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Bug 113051 - Font preferences shouldn't be different to default GNOME settings
Font preferences shouldn't be different to default GNOME settings
Status: RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug 114228
Product: epiphany
Classification: Core
Component: Preferences
0.x
Other Linux
: Normal normal
: ---
Assigned To: Marco Pesenti Gritti
Marco Pesenti Gritti
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2003-05-15 10:22 UTC by lwillis
Modified: 2004-12-22 21:47 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---


Attachments
Pretty picture, serif vs. sans serif :) (7.04 KB, image/png)
2003-05-15 12:38 UTC, spark
Details
What we do for each CSS font family (266 bytes, text/html)
2003-05-22 16:19 UTC, spark
Details

Description lwillis 2003-05-15 10:22:53 UTC
Is there a *good* reason that epiphany has separate font selection from
the rest of GNOME ?

The obvious reason (Although I don't call it "good") is that Mozilla
expects multiple fonts to be defined for the various "types". However is
there a reason that these couldn't map to fonts set up in the GNOME Font
preferences (My guess is that we already have 2 out of 3 (It's 50/50
whether to map Application font to Serif or Sans Serif), ie:

GNOME            -              Mozilla
Application Font                Sans Serif
Application Font????            Serif
Terminal Font                   Monospace

Would we need to do anything/much more to match these up properly and
remove the font selection stuff from epiphany, or are there a11y reasons
to keep them there [And if so why is a web browser different to all the
other apps that mean that they don't need this - specifically word
processors where the document font is under the control of the author, not
the reader?)
Comment 1 spark 2003-05-15 12:11:04 UTC
CSS recommends that web browsers should be able to specify Serif,
Sans-Serif, Cursive, Fantasy and Monospace fonts:

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/fonts.html#generic-font-families
Comment 2 Marco Pesenti Gritti 2003-05-15 12:15:35 UTC
Problems to solve are:

- Are the very granular mozilla settings necessary for accessibility ?
- Is there a satisfying way to map gnome desktop settings to browser 
settings,
or these could be extended so satisfy our needs. For example, is it 
sane
to assume the same font is good for a web page and applications ? It 
would
seem that a system font to display text (web or pdf or text 
viewer ....)
is necessary. Maybe there is one, or it's just fine to use the 
application
one. Unfortunately I cant access gnome and check now.
- When we enabled this in galeon 1, a while ago, using a different 
font
then the default was causing several layut problems. This may have 
changed
now.
- Encodings
Comment 3 Marco Pesenti Gritti 2003-05-15 12:19:50 UTC
About font families, I ever wondered if these terms (Serif etc...) 
are understable to vast majority of users. Personally I never 
understood what they means, and I ever configured all fonts to the 
same value. It could be a language problem (maybe they make sense to 
english "readers").
Comment 4 spark 2003-05-15 12:29:55 UTC
The main thing is Serif vs. Sans Serif. FYI, "serifs" are the short 
lines or curves projecting from the top or bottom of a mainstroke of a
letter. It is important to be able to make the distinction and difficult
to simplify. Generally, serif fonts are more traditional looking and 
are good for printed stuff (because the serif help you to follow lines)
and sans-serif fonts are more modern and are good for on-screen stuff
because they are clear.

Of course for stuff like Cursive and Fantasy, you don't have to use 
those names - you could label them "Natural Writing" and "Decorative" or
something.
Comment 5 spark 2003-05-15 12:38:14 UTC
Created attachment 16549 [details]
Pretty picture, serif vs. sans serif :)
Comment 6 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2003-05-15 15:13:30 UTC
marco, totally unrelated, but those combo boxes in the fonts dialog, I
know i told you to make them combo boxes, but uhhh I was wrong they
should be option menus  :/   /me was young and stupid :)
Comment 7 Marco Pesenti Gritti 2003-05-20 11:03:17 UTC
I think i18n is a non issue. Fontconfig is smart and with default
aliases (that are also default fonts in gnome), it can deal with
encodings automagically.
Comment 8 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2003-05-21 15:17:45 UTC
I'm not sure if doing this is "good" for a11y. 

http://www.w3c.org/TR/UAAG10/guidelines.html#tech-configure-text-scale   

1.  Allow global configuration of the font family of all visually
rendered text content.

2. As part of satisfying provision one of this checkpoint, provide a
configuration option to override font families specified by the author
or by user agent defaults.

3. As part of satisfying provision one of this checkpoint, offer a
range of font families to the user that includes at least:
          * the range offered by the conventional utility available in
the operating environment that allows users to choose the font family, or
          * if no such utility is available, the range of font
families supported by the conventional APIs of the operating
environment for drawing text.

In a way i do agree we should probably have global prefs for these
that all html renderers use in their presentation. So maybe a small
reduction in the available prefs of epiphany is worth it in the long
run, not sure.

At the very least we're going to need to continue to provide an
overide text size specified pref.
Comment 9 lwillis 2003-05-21 16:21:45 UTC
-------------
1.  Allow global configuration of the font family of all visually
rendered text content.
-------------
OK - we have that in the GNOME font preferences.

-------------
2. As part of satisfying provision one of this checkpoint, provide a
configuration option to override font families specified by the author
or by user agent defaults.
-------------
Checkbox - "Always use my fonts" - where "my fonts" is defined as
those you set up in the GNOME font preferences.

-------------
3. As part of satisfying provision one of this checkpoint, offer a
range of font families to the user that includes at least:
          * the range offered by the conventional utility available in
the operating environment that allows users to choose the font family, or
--------------
OK - the language is a little long-winded here - doesn't this just
mean that we have to allow specification in the same area as GNOME
font preferences - if so then using the GNOME font preferences means
we're doing that?

--------------
At the very least we're going to need to continue to provide an
overide text size specified pref.
--------------
Hmm yeah - maybe that should be at the GNOME level as well though?
(After wouldn't the same requirement be present in a Word processor?)
Comment 10 Marco Pesenti Gritti 2003-05-21 18:27:36 UTC
>1.  Allow global configuration of the font family of all visually
>rendered text content.

We dont have this in gnome. Families == serif, sans serif etc .. gnome
fonts configuration is different.
Comment 11 Marco Pesenti Gritti 2003-05-22 11:53:29 UTC
My opinion is that for epiphany 1.0 we should target to just simplify
these prefs. Then we can think to integrate them more with the desktop
I think we can default to fontconfig families aliases (which are also
gnome defaults), and then remove the encoding thing that is terribly
confusing. In fact fontconfig will automatically choose a good i18n
font for default families.
If someone really want change them, I think in 99% of cases he will
not need to configure them per encoding, he will just select a font
that works also with his country encoding.

(Someone has a clue if the Proportional option menu is useful ?)
Comment 12 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2003-05-22 15:37:24 UTC
*** Bug 113531 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 13 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2003-05-22 15:44:58 UTC
marco, since we use font config, can we at least change the ui to use
the gtk-font-sel instead of the mix of option menus and combo
boxes(what the hell was i thinking when i recommend that, please shoot
me). Ist thi s possible?

Just using the standard interfaces would make this part of the ui 100%
better
Comment 14 Marco Pesenti Gritti 2003-05-22 15:52:09 UTC
I dont think we can do it. There are several problems ...
- You cant filter gtk dialog by family
- The Proportional size apply both to serif and sans serif and the
font dialog has a size field
- Not sure if the fonts will ever match what mozilla can use
Comment 15 spark 2003-05-22 16:18:17 UTC
The Propotional menu defines which font we use when no font is specified
in a web page (so it needs to stay).
Comment 16 spark 2003-05-22 16:19:06 UTC
Created attachment 16736 [details]
What we do for each CSS font family
Comment 17 Christian Persch 2003-05-23 13:14:58 UTC
I think we should see that the language-based font setting serve
actually two different purposes.

First, it lets you choose different sizes for different language. I
think that's important. For example, you can have your normal text in
10, but you just might want to display all cjk characters at 24 :)
I don't know if fontconfig lets you define that when you have e.g.
"Sans 10" and a japanese char is requested, it actually it "Mincho 24"
or sth ... ?

Second, it lets you define which fonts to choose for which language.
E.g. for "Sans" it means that for example for western languages it
means Arial while for japanese it's mincho, for trad. chinese sth else
etc... In that respect, the font prefs act like a fontconfig alias
generator. Fontconfig already has this capability, and if there was a
desktop-wide, standalone program which let users modify their
fontconfig aliases in that manner, we could drop these prefs.
Comment 18 Marco Pesenti Gritti 2003-08-05 18:25:55 UTC
Same issue, we want to discuss it in one place I guess.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 114228 ***