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Bug 545602 - Use translator-credits appropriately
Use translator-credits appropriately
Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX
Product: banshee
Classification: Other
Component: general
git master
Other All
: Normal normal
: 1.x
Assigned To: Banshee Maintainers
Banshee Maintainers
gnome[unmaintained]
: 575461 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2008-07-30 22:31 UTC by Wouter Bolsterlee (uws)
Modified: 2020-03-17 08:30 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---


Attachments
Exhibit no. 1: Evolution does credit translators (94.03 KB, image/png)
2008-07-30 22:45 UTC, Wouter Bolsterlee (uws)
  Details
Banshee Translators window, having several issues (53.01 KB, image/png)
2008-07-30 23:00 UTC, André Klapper
  Details
Showing translator credits only for the current translation. (1.64 KB, patch)
2009-03-02 04:24 UTC, Alexander Kojevnikov
needs-work Details | Review
Updated to comment #13 and comment #16 (18.55 KB, patch)
2009-03-17 00:10 UTC, Alexander Kojevnikov
rejected Details | Review

Description Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) 2008-07-30 22:31:18 UTC
The current about dialog translation tab lists ALL translators from ALL languages. This is not standard. Please revert to standard translator-credits practice, just like most Gnome modules do.
Comment 1 Gabriel Burt 2008-07-30 22:40:39 UTC
What exactly is standard?  Evolution, gcalc, gedit, and RB do not credit translators at all.  And pidgin does its own thing (natch).
Comment 2 Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) 2008-07-30 22:45:17 UTC
Created attachment 115590 [details]
Exhibit no. 1: Evolution does credit translators
Comment 3 Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) 2008-07-30 22:46:21 UTC
Common practice is to use the string literal "translator-credits" and mark it for translations. Translators translate this string into their own names and possibly a URL for the l10n team.
Comment 4 André Klapper 2008-07-30 22:58:35 UTC
Gabriel: Evolution, GEdit, gcalctool and RV all DO list translators in my 2.22 build here. Don't know what distro you use that patches this info out.
Comment 5 André Klapper 2008-07-30 23:00:27 UTC
Created attachment 115592 [details]
Banshee Translators window, having several issues

See for example the czech and french names.
Comment 6 Gabriel Burt 2008-07-30 23:03:51 UTC
(In reply to comment #5)
> Created an attachment (id=115592) [edit]
> Banshee Translators window, having several issues
> 
> See for example the czech and french names.

What are the several issues?  The only one I see is the language names (eg French, etc) aren't translated into your language.
Comment 7 André Klapper 2008-07-30 23:14:45 UTC
No idea why this happens on my system because some folks in #banshee don't see the issue. i refered to the czech and french translator names not displayed properly.
Comment 8 Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) 2008-07-30 23:16:41 UTC
Reopening, because of this:


01:09:31 < uws> 01:04:50 <@gabaug> uws: well, I think that's BS
01:09:34 < uws> not sure what you mean there
01:09:51 < uws> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=545602#c3 is the explanation
01:10:02 < andre_> ah... 1.0.0, might be the reason
01:10:31 <@gabaug> uws: I think it's BS that you say that the translator credits are not shown to en_US
01:10:42 <@gabaug> well, not that you say it, but that that is how it is :)
01:10:43 < andre_> for me they are shown in en_US
01:11:41 <@gabaug> andre_: what patch were you referring to that I didn't review but committed?
01:11:46 <@gabaug> andre_: I think you're FUDing
01:11:53 < uws> gabaug: there's a fundamental difference between translations and features
01:12:01 < uws> that's where your argument goes wrong
01:12:08 <@gabaug> heh
01:12:11 -!- emmajane [~emmajane@74.220.175.184] has quit [kaybai]
01:12:11 < uws> features you don't use are still there, visible for the user
01:12:21 < uws> translations that you don't use are undiscoverable
01:12:25 <@gabaug> uws: unless they're only for Windows uesrs
01:12:29 <@gabaug> (eg windows backend support)
01:12:31 < andre_> gabaug, hmm? I didn't say "You", please do not misquote me. thanks.
01:12:34 < function1> and is there a way to clean back to just autogen.sh?
01:12:50 <@gabaug> uws: you can appeal to abock, but I'm marking that WONTFIX
01:13:05 <@gabaug> (06:06:57 PM) andre_: gabaug, you commit a patch and do NOT test it? intersting ;-)
01:13:11 < uws> gabaug: let's not special-case my general answer for now, i'm trying to make a valid point
01:13:31 <@gabaug> uws: I'm not interested in discussing it more
01:13:36 < uws> gabaug: so what's common practice (and good imnsho) is to show translator credits for the localization you're currently using
01:13:42 <@gabaug> I _am_ interested in making Banshee more translatable
01:13:54 < uws> i.e. nl_NL for me, de_DE for andre_   (though I'm on de_DE right now in order to try to improve my german)
01:14:04 <@gabaug> uws: nope, WONTFIX
01:14:20 < uws> Then the gnome-i18n people have a conflict with you
01:14:21 < andre_> gabaug, ok. the "you" was meant as "one". that's an english language bug. sorry if you felt offended, that was not my intention
01:14:23 <@gabaug> let's move on to something productive, like bear454 suggested
01:14:27 < andre_> ok :)
01:14:38 < uws> and I have a professional conflict with you because you are not open for outside comments.
01:14:48 <@gabaug> uws: I've been quite open
01:14:49 < uws> and I think it's childish to go for WONTFIX while the discussion is still open
01:14:52 <@gabaug> uws: but I don't have to agree with you
01:14:53 < uws> you even point me to abock
01:15:01 < uws> so the discussion is not closed yet.
01:15:36 <@gabaug> uws: I wouldn't have marked it WONTFIX if I didn't think abock would agree
01:15:49 <@gabaug> (he did write the code in question)
Comment 9 Gabriel Burt 2008-07-30 23:21:12 UTC
The question mark issue is fixed in 1.2.  I had marked this as WONTFIX, but uws is quite unhappy with that.  Assigning to Aaron, I've spoken my piece.
Comment 10 Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) 2008-07-30 23:33:51 UTC
It's not about the encoding stuff. It's about standard practices not being followed. We discussed this at length on IRC—I can paste logs if desired.
Comment 11 Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) 2008-09-17 11:37:13 UTC
Any progress on this? I *strongly* advise to follow common Gnome practice wrt. translator-credits, which is also endorsed by the Gnome i18n Coordination Team.
Comment 12 Alexander Kojevnikov 2009-03-02 04:24:51 UTC
Created attachment 129826 [details] [review]
Showing translator credits only for the current translation.

I used F-Spot's about dialogue as an example:
http://svn.gnome.org/svn/f-spot/trunk/src/UI.Dialog/AboutDialog.cs
Comment 13 Bertrand Lorentz 2009-03-15 21:50:32 UTC
I think applying this patch would also allow us to get rid of the translators.xml file and the code that generates it (build/TranslatorExtractor.cs).

I think we should use translator-credits, if only because extracting language names and translators names from .po files is rather unreliable.
My favorite is the following :
<language code="ko" name="Novell Language">
;)

Aaron, any opinion on that ?
Comment 14 Alexander Kojevnikov 2009-03-15 22:24:45 UTC
(In reply to comment #13)
> I think applying this patch would also allow us to get rid of the
> translators.xml file and the code that generates it
> (build/TranslatorExtractor.cs).
> 
If so then bug 575461 would also be fixed.
Comment 15 Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) 2009-03-16 21:57:10 UTC
(In reply to comment #13)
> Aaron, any opinion on that ?

I'm not Aaron, but I do have an opinion. I am one of the Gnome i18n Coordination Team members (see http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/CoordinationTeam for mor information), and I am strongly in favor of using the "translator-credits" approach instead of the current approach listing all people from all languages (and there are mistakes, as you pointed out). I've explained and discussed this in previous comments on this bug; please read those for more information and a rationale.

That said, consider this a formal request from the Gnome i18n team to adhere to widespread Gnome i18n customs.

Thanks for your cooperation. 

On behalf of the translators,

— Wouter  (and yes, we still love you for the rocking application :))
Comment 16 Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) 2009-03-16 22:04:08 UTC
(In reply to comment #12)
> Created an attachment (id=129826) [edit]
> Showing translator credits only for the current translation.

Some comments on this patch:
- In addition to removing the code that iterates over all available
  translations, the definitions of ProductTranslation should be
  removed as well (I think those are not used elsewhere).
- There is no need to do a string comparison and NULLifying the
  property, since GtkAboutDialog takes care of that. From the
  documentation of gtk_about_dialog_set_translator_credits ():
>   It is a good idea to use the customary msgid "translator-credits"
>   for this purpose, since translators will already know the purpose
>   of that msgid, and since GtkAboutDialog will detect if
>   "translator-credits" is untranslated and hide the tab.

Comment 17 Alexander Kojevnikov 2009-03-17 00:10:54 UTC
Created attachment 130800 [details] [review]
Updated to comment #13 and comment #16

The patch removes translators.xml file and the code that generates it. It also removes unused code from ProductInformation.cs
Comment 18 Bertrand Lorentz 2009-03-17 20:57:33 UTC
Alex,
Thanks for the patch, everything seems to work fine, in en_US and fr_FR both with and without having translator-credits translated.

Wouter,
I'm aware of the arguments in favor of using translator-credits, and I'm convinced. I was just pointing out an additional reason to do it.
I'm trying to get some feedback from Aaron before removing some code he wrote, as a courtesy, and because it would be pointless to remove the code and have him add it back afterwards.
For all translators : thanks for showing the love by translating ! :)
Comment 19 Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) 2009-03-17 22:11:20 UTC
(In reply to comment #18)
> I'm aware of the arguments in favor of using translator-credits, and I'm
> convinced. I was just pointing out an additional reason to do it.

Most people are "convinced", it's just that Gabriel acted slightly less awesome than usual :)
Comment 20 Alexander Kojevnikov 2009-05-01 07:16:05 UTC
*** Bug 575461 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 21 Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) 2009-05-01 09:39:22 UTC
Why is the patch not committed yet?
Comment 22 Gabriel Burt 2009-05-11 23:13:25 UTC
If Aaron is fine with this, then it's fine by me.  Who am I to tell translators they deserve more credit than they want? :)
Comment 23 Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) 2009-05-12 16:45:09 UTC
(In reply to comment #22)
> If Aaron is fine with this, then it's fine by me.  Who am I to tell translators
> they deserve more credit than they want? :)

I don't see the reasoning here. By listing ALL translators for ALL languages in a really long list, the people who actually translated the interface you are CURRENTLY looking at, i.e. the translators for the CURRENT language, go unnoticed. By only listing the translators that contributed to the software as the user is using it, i.e. in the CURRENT locale, the translators get the real respect they deserve... [*]

Anyway, this seemingly trivial issue has take way too much time already. Let's commit and be done with it. Ok? :)

[*] ...which is, given the amount of people who actually care to open the about box, hit the button, and navigate to another tab, not much anyway. ;)
Comment 24 Aaron Bockover 2009-05-14 22:04:21 UTC
Okay, I have a huge problem with this, and I think that the GNOME policy on just using "translator-credits" was not thought out at all.

The patch looks like, and from what I understand in this thread, and please correct me if I am wrong, that only the translator(s) from the current locale will be displayed.

While I agree that it is much nicer to show the latest translators of a given language (but not actually remove anyone who has contributed), I do not agree that translators for languages other than the current locale should be hidden.

It is nice to show that our application is available in other languages, and more importantly credit everyone involved - long list or not.

I do agree that:

 a) we should ensure that the actual .po files have proper information for displaying as credits - there are a few strange entries in the po files, but this is very easily fixable.

 b) it would be good to promote the translation credit for the current locale to the top of the credits list

 c) we should ensure the list of translators for a given language is displayed such that the most recent translator is first

So I submit that our credits could and should be improved, but I also submit that our approach is more community-centric and less inclusive than GNOME's policy and that such policy should be changed to actually match Banshee's approach, with changes (a) (b) and (c).
Comment 25 Gabriel Burt 2009-10-27 20:18:08 UTC
Bulk changing the assignee to banshee-maint@gnome.bugs to make it easier for people to get updated on all banshee bugs by following that address.  It's usually quite apparent who is working on a given bug by the comments and/or patches attached.
Comment 26 André Klapper 2009-10-27 21:13:59 UTC
(In reply to comment #25)
> Bulk changing the assignee to banshee-maint@gnome.bugs to make it easier for
> people to get updated on all banshee bugs by following that address

That's what the "QA contact" is meant for, not the assignee.
Fail. ;-)
Comment 27 André Klapper 2020-03-17 08:30:08 UTC
Banshee is not under active development anymore and had its last code changes more than three years ago. Its codebase has been archived.

Closing this report as WONTFIX as part of Bugzilla Housekeeping to reflect
reality. Please feel free to reopen this ticket (or rather transfer the project
to GNOME Gitlab, as GNOME Bugzilla is being shut down) if anyone takes the
responsibility for active development again.
See https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/Infrastructure/issues/264 for more info.