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Bug 98773 - Sort order indicators are inverted
Sort order indicators are inverted
Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX
Product: gtk+
Classification: Platform
Component: Widget: GtkTreeView
2.0.x
Other other
: Normal normal
: ---
Assigned To: gtktreeview-bugs
gtktreeview-bugs
: 342979 366662 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2002-11-17 09:28 UTC by Braden
Modified: 2009-04-22 19:50 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: 2.0



Description Braden 2002-11-17 09:28:34 UTC
Filed based on the resolution of bug 98365.

The sort order indicator arrows on the columns are inverted.

An "up" arrow means ascending: so "A" before "Z", "little" before "big",
"old" before "new".

A "down" arrow, of course, means the opposite.

Jonathan Blandford writes in bug 86371:

  This is the correct behavior.

  The arrow points in the ascending fashion in the order in which
  the list is read (in this case top to bottom).  The list
  [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] is clearly ascending, and when we display it in
  a top to bottom direction, we want to keep this property.

I contend that this is a design error. Having the "up" arrow mean
"ascending" order and the "down" arrow mean "descending" order is
well-established convention. Evolution, the OpenOffice file selector, and
Windows Explorer all operate in this fashion. GNOME 2 is the first place I
recall seeing this convention inverted. This is negatively impacting
usability in a number of apps, including the GNOME search tool and Nautilus.
Comment 1 Jonathan Blandford 2002-11-26 22:22:33 UTC
Tricky.

There are two ways to look at that marker.  One is it is an arrow
pointing the direction you read.  The other is that it's a physical
representation of sizes, from large to small.  Windows has apparently
opted for the latter.  That being said, a quick survey through the
office left a lot of people expecting the other, and complaining about
outlook/evolution getting the wrong direction when they click on the
date.  The most common comment was 'I never understood that arrow -- I
just clicked until it sorted the right way'.  Those that weren't used
to either definitely thought it was a directional arrow, though
perhaps that was biased by my drawing.

I'm tempted to leave it as it is for two reasons.

1) Qt and Mozilla do it this way.  While consistency in the Free
Software world is somewhat ridiculous, why stray now.

2) Some themes (like Bluecurve) draw the arrows open ended.  That is,
they look like a '^' and are not filled in at the bottom.  This makes
them look even more like an arrow, and less like a 'size icon.'  To
really move this over, I think we'd have to either introduce a stock
icon, or a new drawing style.
Comment 2 Jonathan Blandford 2002-11-26 22:48:35 UTC
Just as another data point Battlefield 1942 also agrees with the
current GTK+ behavior.
Comment 3 Braden 2002-11-28 05:56:29 UTC
A game?

GNOME should follow the major platforms on this. I don't have a Mac 
available, but screen shots I've found indicate that the OS X file 
manager puts the arrows in the same direction as Windows Explorer. As 
to your assertion that changing the current behavior would stray from 
a supposed Free Software convention, what are Evolution and 
OpenOffice? Chopped liver?

There needs to be a better reason for diverging from the behavior of 
the two major desktop GUIs than "It's what Mozilla does" and/or "It's 
what a game does". If Mozilla is diverging from platform standards 
for something like this, it is clearly wrong. Same goes for Qt.

Furthermore, I really don't follow your logic that the arrow 
should "point in the direction you read." If that were the case, the 
arrow would *always* point down, since Western scripts proceed left-
to-right, top-to-bottom. Certainly the arrow is to indicate the order 
of the items, not the direction of traversal by the reader.

This needs to go to the GNOME usability mailing list, and the result 
of that discussion should go in the GNOME HIG.
Comment 4 Kristian Rietveld 2006-05-27 20:31:50 UTC
*** Bug 342979 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 5 Charles Kerr 2006-10-30 06:04:13 UTC
*** Bug 366662 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 6 Jan Niklas Hasse (Account disabled) 2009-04-22 19:29:02 UTC
Although this is very old I still think it should be changed. What about fixing it for Gtk+ 3?
Comment 7 Braden 2009-04-22 19:50:53 UTC
See bug 305277. This needs to be fixed in the HIG first.