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Bug 94910 - Zoom accelerators, allow both = and +
Zoom accelerators, allow both = and +
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: gnome-devel-docs
Classification: Applications
Component: hig
unspecified
Other Linux
: High normal
: ---
Assigned To: HIG Maintainers
HIG Maintainers
: 113600 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks: 105183 121168
 
 
Reported: 2002-10-04 21:45 UTC by Havoc Pennington
Modified: 2020-12-04 18:20 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Havoc Pennington 2002-10-04 21:45:54 UTC
The HIG suggests 
Ctrl++ for zoom in and Ctrl+= for normal size, 
but this effectively means Shift+Ctrl++ for zoom in.
Is that intended? It breaks symmetry with Ctrl+- which does 
not require the Shift.
Comment 1 Calum Benson 2002-10-07 14:26:27 UTC
Yeah, it's a good question... ironically enough I raised a bug against
treeview for this a while back because it uses + and - to expand/hide
nodes, too, even though it was me who suggested it :)

A possible hack for applications that use them is to make '=' work in
addition to Ctrl+plus.  Of course that's somewhat keyboard-dependent,
but as jrb said in bug #88314, 'in practice, no one has ever
complained'  :)

Are there any suggestions for keybindings that would be obviously-better?
Comment 2 Christian Rose 2003-05-15 10:33:41 UTC
Allowing alternative shortcuts still leaves the issue of what shortcut
should be displayed in menus.

By the way, bug 55629 and bug 56108 also contain relevant pieces of
information, like examples of keyboards where '=' is composed and
hence a bad choice.
Comment 3 Alan Horkan 2003-05-15 19:46:45 UTC
The HIG suggests having Ctrl+= as being reset to Zoom 1:1, but I would
much prefer if both Ctlr+= and Ctrl++ worked for Zoom In.  

Thing about Ctrl++ is that most users* with a US/UK keyboard will hit 
Ctrl and the key with + on it and expect it to work and not
necessarily think about Shift+=.  If you allow both, it "Just Works
TM" and you avoid annoying the hell out of European and other users
who dont necessarily have = on the default keyboard  
[see the thread about 'Bad keyboard shortcuts; on the usability
mailing list for this month, May 2003,
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/ ]

* and when i say most users I mean ME but I could probably fabricate
some data if it makes you feel better ;)  
Comment 4 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2003-05-28 19:19:21 UTC
*** Bug 113600 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 5 Alan Horkan 2003-05-28 19:29:35 UTC
(NB, it would be good if we could specify version in this bug report)

This bug should probably be filed against "User Input" because that is
the section of the HIG that specifies keyboard accellerators.   

I have somewhat repeated myself in bug 113600
rather than discussing this further I have come to a conclusion and
proposed a solution.   
the more important of my comments from bug 113600 pasted here for your
convenience:   

...
I really dont like this because on my keyboard to get plus I need to type
both Shift and =, which is fairly cumbersome.  
I think that Ctrl+= should also work for Zoom In although it need not be
shown in the menu.  Ctrl++ makes more sense on certain types of keyboard
layout and if Ctrl + = is also supported I suspect users wont even think
about the fact that they only pressed Ctrl + = when they actually
needed to
press Ctrl + Shift + =.  

A different shortcut should be found for Zoom Normal (1:1).  
Mozilla uses Ctrl+0 (that is Zero not the letter O).  

Which I think is fairly reasonable.  The 0 key is conveniently located
next
to - and + and that Ctrl 1-9 often used in many applications for recent
documents (although if you wanted to have as many as 10 recent documents
available you might want Ctrl+0).


Comment 6 Calum Benson 2003-08-07 16:16:12 UTC
Apologies for spam... marking as GNOMEVER2.3 so it appears on the official GNOME
bug list :)
Comment 7 Jaroslav Jiricka 2003-08-21 13:23:15 UTC
That's a problem, as it only works for US keyboard layout.
For example, on the czech keybord, we press "1" key to get "+" 
and "/" for "-". That makes about 20 cm distance between Zoom In and 
Zoom Out keys! 
Secondly, we have "=" where the US keybord has "-". The physical key 
label is "%=-_" on my keyboard, users with us-only labels have 
just "-_". It means, when you press the key with "-" label, you 
get "=".
With such a mess, I prefer using the keypad for digits and "+-*/," 
but Ctrl+KP_Add and Ctrl+KP_Subtract don't work for me as zoom keys.
Can HIG suggest Ctrl+KP_Subtract, Ctrl+KP_Add and Ctrl+KP_0 also do 
zooming?
Comment 8 Alan Horkan 2003-09-26 17:19:51 UTC
This bug was filed almost a year ago and a recent dicussion on the
GIMP lists reminded me of it.  
I think this is really quite important and needs to be decided sooner
rather than later.  Havoc thinks it is good idea, so does Calum and
there seems to be little disagreement that this is a good idea.  

should i try bringing this up on the usability mailing list or
something?  

Bumping the priority to High.  
Comment 9 Calum Benson 2003-11-26 18:29:08 UTC
Any comments from anyone else on usability-maint?
Comment 10 Calum Benson 2003-11-28 10:56:13 UTC
FWIW, another option might be to make sure that '+' and '-' on the
number pad work as well... AFAIK that's less sensitive to different
international layouts (but admittedly not so good on laptops).  I.e.
on the menu we continue to show:

Zoom In   Ctrl-Plus
Zoom Out  Ctrl-Minus

but you can actually use Ctrl-Plus, Ctrl-Shift-Equals (on UK/US kbds)
or Ctrl-NumPadPlus to zoom in; and Ctrl-Minus or Ctrl-NumPadMinus (or
possibly Ctrl-Shift-Undersore on UK/US kbds,too) to zoom out.
Comment 11 Alan Horkan 2003-11-28 19:38:24 UTC
I would definately have assumed that the Numpad keys worked, only a
(weird) program not targetted at ordinary users would do otherwise.  

I am convinced that the proposed solution will provide the best base
case and only in rare situations should do I believe developers would
consider using the mentioned accelorators for something else.  
Comment 12 Calum Benson 2004-10-21 16:47:12 UTC
Apologies for spam-- ensuring Sun a11y team are cc'ed on all current a11y bugs.
 Filter on "SUN A11Y SPAM" to ignore.
Comment 13 Jaap Karssenberg 2005-03-11 10:46:43 UTC
Both envince and epiphany have bug reports that the "+" and "-" keys at the
numpad can't be used for zooming (as a ctrl-/+ combo). Apperently this needs to
be specified by the HIG first before they implement it and refer to this discussion.

If the HIG fails to specify the every "+" sign on my keyboard should do the same
I find that a mayor bug; it is *very* confusing. And I won't be able to explain
to inexperienced users that "+" and "+" aren't the same, that just won't do.
Also it should be recognized that non-gnome applications like firefox do use
these keys for zooming (in combination with ctrl that is).

Furthermore it seems to me that with a "standard" qwerty keyboard it is easier
to use the numpad keys for zooming since you don't need the shift key.

*Please* make clear how these numpad keys should behave so developers of
programs like epiphany and evince won't be reluctant to implement them right.
Comment 14 Calum Benson 2005-03-24 18:49:24 UTC
Hmm, I thought I'd added something to the HIG about that before, but I don't see
it now... maybe I just remembered writing comment #10 above :)  Will write
something into the HIG when I get a chance.
Comment 15 Calum Benson 2006-04-26 17:13:33 UTC
Apologies for spam... ensuring Sun a11y folks are cc'ed on all current accessibility bugs.
Comment 16 Allan Day 2014-09-26 13:49:47 UTC
The latest HIG version recommends using Ctrl+0 for normal zoom level, and that's what Epiphany does.