After an evaluation, GNOME has moved from Bugzilla to GitLab. Learn more about GitLab.
No new issues can be reported in GNOME Bugzilla anymore.
To report an issue in a GNOME project, go to GNOME GitLab.
Do not go to GNOME Gitlab for: Bluefish, Doxygen, GnuCash, GStreamer, java-gnome, LDTP, NetworkManager, Tomboy.
Bug 87191 - Frustrating Panel Configuration
Frustrating Panel Configuration
Status: RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug 73072
Product: gnome-panel
Classification: Other
Component: panel
2.0.x
Other Linux
: Normal minor
: ---
Assigned To: Panel Maintainers
Panel Maintainers
: 87145 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2002-07-03 00:00 UTC by Sherman Boyd
Modified: 2004-12-22 21:47 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: 2.0


Attachments
Screenshot of app covered by panel (90.43 KB, image/png)
2002-07-08 21:00 UTC, Sherman Boyd
Details

Description Sherman Boyd 2002-07-03 00:00:27 UTC
The new panel configuration is very frustrating.  Why is the upper panel
set in stone?  You can't change preferences or move it, or delete it.  Grr.
 The top panel should be like any other panel.  You should be able to drag
it to the left or to the right.  It should be fully configurable.

I've had issues where I a program maximizes underneath this bar and I have
to jump through hoops to shut it down.  I encounter this with both sawfish
and metacity.

In case you don't think this little issue deserves attention I'd like to
let you know that every article I've read on Gnome2 has griped about this
extensively, that's a lot of bad press:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/print/2002/6/30/15151/7188

"The top panel has been welded to the top of the screen and there is no
amount of negotiating that will change that. This wouldn't be bothersome if
you could set the panel to "auto hide", similar to the old panel in Gnome
or those used in KDE and Windows. In fact I actually resorted to reading
the help file for the panel and was informed that the "menu panel" cannot
be moved or hidden. Granted it is very small and only takes a little room
away, but it was an immediate source of frustration for me. I can only
assume there are some hidden config files somewhere that will allow me to
have my way but for now I'm stuck with the status quo."

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1280

"The Gnome menu panel now resembles a bit of MacOS. It sits on the top of
the desktop, and no matter what I tried, I can't change its position. The
window list can be found on the bottom of the screen. So, you get two gnome
panels, one on the top and one on the bottom. I found this default
configuration, bone-headed, at best. The panel on top only includes an
'Applications' and 'Actions' menu, then you get a huge unused space and
then, at the right most side, you get the clock, and a menu which is
equivelant to a chooser/finder as found on MacOS. It was a matter of time,
before I deleted my bottom window list and embedded it on the main panel,
to use all this unused space (note: I use a 1280x1024 resolution)." 

I use gnome2 as my primary desktop, this is my number one gripe.  Otherwise
I like the speed, and appreciate all the hard work that must have gone into
this.

If this is a design decision and you guys really want to stick to your guns
on this please let me know...
Comment 1 Glynn Foster 2002-07-03 00:06:34 UTC
Thanks for the feedback...but you kinda omit any useful
comments/changes that should be made. If you complain without giving
any worthwhile feedback it makes it quite difficult to know what to do.
Comment 2 Calum Benson 2002-07-03 10:43:14 UTC
It's not really a design decision.  We were hoping that we'd be able
to make it into a regular panel and use the menu applet to show the
Applications/Actions menus, or some equivalent.  This way we could
have had it looking identical to the current menu panel, but without
all the restrictions you mention.

However, the menu applet so far hasn't had the love it needs to make
it stable/accessible/all the other things it needs to be, so it didn't
happen, unfortunately :/
Comment 3 Sherman Boyd 2002-07-03 17:25:25 UTC
Ahh, OK.  Well, I'm not really trying to complain, you guys have done
a great job on Gnome2.  I was surprised to see there was no bug
report, because everyone is talking about this.

Just in case it isn't clear, the changes I would like to see are:

1) The top panel should be moveable, resizable and hideable.
2) You should be able to configure it so it isn't always in front of
other windows.

I guess to achieve these the menu applet needs work.  Is anyone
currently working on this project?
Comment 4 Seth Nickell 2002-07-03 20:44:42 UTC
1) We hope to fix the "position of the menus set in stone" problem for
GNOME 2.2, as Calum described. (PS, I guess that means we need to get
cracking on the menu applet again...)

2) Having panels always on top is a design decision. Note that
applications that implement WM hints properly should still appear
completely on top (e.g. a movie player or presentation application
should do this), but not general applications.For people accustomed to
GNOME having the panels drop can occasionally free up a little real
estate, but generally that space isn't especially useful. 

On the other hand, having the panels disappear can lock users into a
"I don't know what to do situation". Without the tasklist, for
example, they may not know how to make a giant window covering the
whole screen "go away". I've seen this happen with new GNOME users a
few times before.

I'd appreciate information on the particular use cases that having
panels on top is affecting? Do you try to use that space for working
somehow, or is there a particular app like a movie player that's being
interfered with?
Comment 5 Heath Harrelson 2002-07-04 11:56:20 UTC
*** Bug 87145 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 6 jensflorian 2002-07-05 19:58:38 UTC
Trying to add apps to a sided panel via the ALT-F1 dialog will add the
apps in the upper default panel - that's wrong too.
Comment 7 Calum Benson 2002-07-08 10:54:40 UTC
The current Alt+F1 menu will be disappearing Real Soon Now, to be
replaced by the GNOME foot menu.  It never made sense to pop up the
panel menu on Alt+F1, as the user has no idea which panel it refers
to.
Comment 8 Sherman Boyd 2002-07-08 21:00:56 UTC
Created attachment 9726 [details]
Screenshot of app covered by panel
Comment 9 Luis Villa 2002-07-08 21:37:30 UTC
What window manager are you using, Sherman?

Marking this minor and tempted to close invalid, as all of these
things are duplicates unless there is particular useful and unique
commentary here (which, AFAICT, there isn't.) 
Comment 10 Sherman Boyd 2002-07-08 21:41:07 UTC
I don't know how usefull this is but I attached a screenshot terminal
with it's upper bar covered by the panel.  I placed this on there
myself, however I have had apps (Evolution replies come to mind)
placed there by the window manager (metacity or sawfish).  

The problem is that no matter how it gets placed, once it is there it
becomes very difficult to move, especially if the window manager
remembers it's position and restores it next time you start the app. 
So far my solution is to maximize the app using the tasklist below. 
This is still a problem, because if put it back to it's original state
it is restored back to the position under the panel.

My first instinct was to check the panel properties, which led to
instant frustration because you can't.  I like my panel to be 'always
on top' but it's not a viable option when the application windows
don't avoid it.

I will post a better example when I get one, and try to reproduce this
in both sawfish and metacity.
Comment 11 Luis Villa 2002-07-08 22:11:06 UTC
Given the current WM specs as laid out at freedesktop.org, if the WM
places an app there, it is a WM bug. AFAICT, metacity implements this
correctly. If you were using sawfish, was it v1 or 2?
Comment 12 Sherman Boyd 2002-07-08 22:29:52 UTC
Luis,

The most important commentary here is that the menu applet needs some
love and that apps need to avoid the panel on top.  If that is
duplicated elsewhere please close the bug.

I know this report is long and too rambly.  I think that these two
issues are the most obvious usability issues gnome2 has right now,
please make sure that they are represented somewhere before closing
this.  

I was not able to find duplicate bugs (under gnome-panel) about
configuring the top panel, but I was able to find an unconfirmed bug
about applications failing to avoid the top panel (87644).  Perhaps
this should be closed and split into two more concise bugs?  

1) The Menu Applet needs work so the upper panel can be fully
configurable 

and 

2) Applications need to avoid being placed behind the "immutable" top
panel.  (87644)
Comment 13 Sherman Boyd 2002-07-08 22:38:08 UTC
Luis,

Currently my WM is metacity, but I have encountered the issue under
sawfish v1.0.1.  True when the WM places it there it is a WM problem,
but what about when a user places it?  I think the desired behaviour
would be to have it 'snap' down, so that a user doesn't have to end up
restarting gnome without saving the session in order to fix the issue.

Comment 14 Arthur Britto 2002-07-19 04:03:46 UTC
I believe this bug should be given a higher priority.  Perhaps even
critical.

This bug actually damages hardware!

To my great surprise, I noticed my menu bar was lightly burned into my
flat panel monitor.

To my greater surprise, I found out I could not move the menu to avoid
further burn in!


Comment 15 Calum Benson 2002-07-24 18:21:50 UTC
You can't move it, but you can always *re*move it and add a GNOME Menu
on a different panel instead, which gives you all the same
functionality as the Applications and Actions menus.
Comment 16 Seth Nickell 2002-07-26 21:58:46 UTC
Sherman, Metacity should not be allowing window titlebars to sit under
panels. If it currently is, that is a bug.
Comment 17 Vincent Untz 2002-10-26 18:26:40 UTC
Sherman: your first point is a duplicate of bug #73072. As for your
second point, if it still happens, please open a bug against the WM
you're using.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 73072 ***