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Bug 55260 - panel needs feedback on application launch
panel needs feedback on application launch
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: gnome-panel
Classification: Other
Component: panel
unspecified
Other All
: High enhancement
: ---
Assigned To: Panel Maintainers
Panel Maintainers
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2001-05-26 18:19 UTC by Jamie Zawinski
Modified: 2015-03-24 13:00 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: Unversioned Enhancement


Attachments
Notes on one possible design (24.83 KB, text/plain)
2002-05-02 04:28 UTC, Havoc Pennington
Details

Description Jamie Zawinski 2001-05-26 18:20:05 UTC
Package: gnome-core
Severity: normal
Version: gnome-core-1.4.0.2-ximian.8
Synopsis: panel needs feedback on application launch
Bugzilla-Product: gnome-core
Bugzilla-Component: panel

Description:
From having now watched a number of Unix neophytes sit down with a
GNOME desktop and try and figure out how to use them, I think I can
safely say that application launch is the thing that confuses them
most.  (Or at least, the thing that confuses them first.)

Compared to Mac or Windows, applications on Unix launch VERY slowly
(and I'm talking about modern, average machines here: 600MHz, 64M RAM.)

This is compounded by the fact that most applications are launched FOUR
times at once!  I've watched this happen many times.  It goes like
this:

   - Click on a button in the panel.  Wait 2 seconds.
   - Nothing happened.  Maybe I missed.  Click again.  Wait 2 seconds.
   - Nothing happened.  Maybe I was supposed to double-click.  
     Click twice.
   - Then at this point, they notice that their mouse is moving really
     slowly.  Oh, maybe it's doing something.  Now windows start to
     appear.  They start trying to close some of them, but it doesn't
     work.
   - This sucks! they say.

And these are not people who are new to computers: one of the people
I've seen go through this process multiple times is a major-league
expert Mac user.

So you really need to find a way to give some feedback on when apps
have actually been launched.  Here are some suggestions:

    1: when you click on a button in the panel, have it change state:
       have it stay down for several seconds, so they know that
       something happened.  Maybe even have it change to say LAUNCHING
       over the icon or something.

    2: have the button gray out after the first click, and stay gray
       until a window has been mapped that has the appropriate
       title/class.  (The panel buttons could have a field that says
       the class of the window to wait for.)  This could time out
       after, say, 10 seconds, and if it does, and pop up a dialog
       saying "the application does not seem to have launched
       properly."

    3: Expert users might not like this, but it would be even better if
       the panel actually grabbed the mouse when an app was launching,
       and did not allow other clicks until the window appeared, to
       avoid spazzing.  Turn it into a busy-cursor.  People are used to
       this because that's how the browser works: after you've clicked
       to load a page, you can't click again until the new page starts
       showing up.




------- Bug moved to this database by unknown@bugzilla.gnome.org 2001-05-26 14:20 -------

The original reporter (jwz@jwz.org) of this bug does not have an account here.
Reassigning to the exporter, unknown@bugzilla.gnome.org.
Reassigning to the default owner of the component, panel-maint@bugzilla.gnome.org.

Comment 1 Kjartan Maraas 2001-09-01 19:22:09 UTC
xalf is supposed to help here, but as people seem to agree that xalf
needs to be redesigned I'll leave this report here and add the
Usability keyword to it.
Comment 2 Nils Pedersen 2001-10-01 23:03:25 UTC
Didn't someone at sun do galf?

Anyway the solution should be generic for all GNOME launching
mechanisms (Control-Centre and Nautilus)

This enhancement/bug is the result of the gnome  "must fix for 2.0" 
usablity project: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/proposals/

Comment 3 Luis Villa 2002-01-22 19:57:52 UTC
Adding relevant keywords. You can filter on the phrase 'luis doing GNOME2 work'
to catch all instances of this so that you can ignore them.
Comment 4 Nils Pedersen 2002-03-20 16:07:15 UTC
this one really needs to be fixed (for nautilus as well)...
Comment 5 Luis Villa 2002-03-20 18:24:40 UTC
Definitely not going to happen for 2.0.
Comment 6 Seth Nickell 2002-03-21 12:48:55 UTC
CC'ing Havoc.

I just played with OS/X today, and thought the "bouncing launcher
icon" feedback was quite excellent.
Comment 7 Havoc Pennington 2002-03-21 15:36:30 UTC
If anyone wants to implement this, send me email and I can send you a
load of stuff to read first.

I'll probably get to implementing it eventually, but it'd be nice if
someone could get to it sooner.
Comment 8 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2002-04-11 12:03:44 UTC
moving to gnome-panel
Comment 9 Jamie Zawinski 2002-04-11 12:13:02 UTC
For the record, I implemented a workaround for this lossage here:

    http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/src/kiosk/sbin/runonce.c

This requires setting up your panel icons to run programs like this:

    runonce "XChat" xchat -args

It will raise windows if they already exist, and is pretty clever
about processes that are just starting up and haven't mapped a window yet.

However, this behavior should really be built into the panel, so that
the buttons are grayed out while the application is in the process of
being launched.

Another suggestion you should consider, beyond the ones I made in the
initial report, would be to put up a splash screen for applications
that take a while to start -- panel could note that the process it has
launched has neither died nor mapped a window within, say, two
seconds, and in that case, could put up an ephemeral window that says
"FooApp starting..." which would be torn down as soon as some Foo
window showed its face.
Comment 10 Seth Nickell 2002-05-02 03:52:12 UTC
This is a very important bug. When I test GNOME2 on users who are not
familiar with GNOME/Linux, one of the biggest problems they have is
launching multiple applications. Many of them don't even realize that
they asked the computer to launch multiple times (even after seeing
multiple windows open). I'm guessing they subconsciously assume that
the click didn't take based on the lack of feedback.

Its also a hard bug, so if we plan to resolve it in the 2.0.x
timeframe we better start planning soon. (as an aside, users also have
troubles with Nautilus in this regard, so a solution should handle both).
Comment 11 Havoc Pennington 2002-05-02 04:20:40 UTC
I don't think it's that hard, probably take a few days. I'll go ahead
and attach my design notes if I can find them.
Comment 12 Havoc Pennington 2002-05-02 04:28:17 UTC
Created attachment 8112 [details]
Notes on one possible design
Comment 13 Havoc Pennington 2002-05-02 04:30:47 UTC
So I owe Lubos Lunak from KDE some more discussion of this issue;
KDE has a working setup which uses text strings serialized into
streams of client messages. They don't support all the wacky stuff I put 
in my notes but their basic approach could be extended to do so.

I feel like the client message thing is a bit hacky compared to the 
X properties and special X window approach, but it probably works fine.
Comment 14 Seth Nickell 2002-05-02 05:18:03 UTC
Interop with KDE would be wonderful as long as we get to keep your
(terrific, really) set of design goals.
Comment 15 Mark McLoughlin 2002-08-05 01:46:59 UTC
New feature -> 2.2.x milestone
Comment 16 Seth Nickell 2002-08-05 05:55:32 UTC
This bug would be on my "top ten usability problems I'd like to see
fixed in GNOME 2.2" list.
Comment 17 Luis Villa 2002-08-05 17:48:33 UTC
Seth: are you keeping that list? it's not easy to manage right now,
but I'd like to make it easier. [Note that I've already marked this
'high'/enhancement- I don't think there are many of those around, so
if you want to use that combo to mark your other such, go ahead...]
Comment 18 Seth Nickell 2002-08-06 05:18:57 UTC
oh, I have a paper list here, I can put them in bugzilla that way if
that's best
Comment 19 Shane O'Connor 2002-10-17 15:56:32 UTC
this is working fine with sun's internal builds with galf - it seems a
bit silly that we don't at least put a temporary solution in place for
all gnome distro's by using galf (or am is that a totally crazy idea?)
Comment 20 Mattias Dahlberg 2002-10-21 18:07:56 UTC
What about the method that Havoc explained in:

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2002-
September/msg00366.html

is that something that could work for 2.2?
Comment 21 Havoc Pennington 2002-10-21 18:40:49 UTC
I'm working on this for 2.2; there's a "startup-notification" module 
on cvs.freedesktop.org with a reference implementation already 
written, I'm finalizing a joint proposed spec with Lubos from 
KDE to send to xdg-list, and have discussed with Owen how to work 
this in to GTK 2.2. Remaining work is to add support to libwnck 
metacity, and panel (or rather our "launch a desktop file" 
code, wherever that lives).

We should make GNOME 2.2 with a nice solution, no need for LD_PRELOAD 
wackiness.
Comment 22 Seth Nickell 2002-10-22 02:41:41 UTC
Yay!
Comment 23 Mark McLoughlin 2003-01-06 05:52:18 UTC
YAY !