GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 323488
allow to customize chan/user lists position
Last modified: 2010-01-13 11:34:48 UTC
Some user would like to put the lists on the right part of the screen
This is exactly the kind of trivial clutter we've been trying to avoid. I've yet to meet a user with this request who didn't care after a couple hours of using it, so this request is really just an initial knee-jerk reaction to our break with "tradition." I've been meaning to write up something on the reasons for UI decisions like this that users can be pointed to when they start arguing -- if you keep having this request, let me know and I'll make it a higher priority.
Please see this report as well: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326496 I agree with Sebastien Bacher, I think it is essential that the user list is on the right side of the screen, I need to know who is in the channel and who I'm talking too.
*** Bug 326496 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
I've been using XChat-GNOME for a few weeks now, but I still can't get used to this behavior of X-G. In the other, duplicate, bug report - http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326496 - others have already explained why having the user list under a button isn't a good idea. When I'm using IRC I check the user list frequently because I want to know if certain persons are in the channel, or if they left. Another argument against this is that the current implementation of the user list is so different from other IRC clients that users who are new to GNOME and used mIRC on Windows previously, will likely be scared away from X-G. Sometimes it's good to innovate, and sometimes it's good to keep things the same. The advantages this new user list brings are less "trivial clutter" which means more free space for the chat window. I also see these things as advantages, but I do not think that the current solution is good. I have a proposal for a better solution which would probably keep the users who want the traditional user list and the users who like this new approach both happy. Wait a moment and I'll create an example with Inkscape.
Ok, here it is: http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Evanlonen/x-g_design.png My suggestion is that we mix the tradional design and the X-G approach. The user list will be located to the right side of the X-G window. But it will be hidden by default. If the user clicks on the "Users" button, which is currently located to the left side in the bottom of the screen, the user list is extended and slides in from the right side of the screen. This means, there would be no treeview, the user list would be similar to the channel list on the left side of the screen, but hidden by default and extendable. My idea is that when the extend button is clicked, it's effects are permanent until it's clicked again. This extend button would be labeled "Show User List" when the user list is hidden, and "Hide User List" when the user list is extended. This has advantages for all of us. The users who don't like the clutter but still want to check out the user list now and then, can click the extend button to show the user list, and click it again to hide it. For them the behavior will be similar to the current implementation of the user list in X-G The users who like to have the user list permanently on the screen will be happy as well, all they need to do is click the extend button once, and the user list will be visible on the right side forever unless they click the extend button again. Isn't this a great and simple solution?
Please consider re-opening this bug. It's very disturbing as most IRC clients do have this list, so it makes a very disturbing experience for a switcher. It also makes xchat-gnome hard to use for channel operators who want to keep a constant look on who is on their channel(s). Something like Sander van Loon's design in comment #5 seems like a good solution. Another idea would simply be to use a gconf option, set to false by default and not exposed in the preferences UI, that distribution packagers or advanced users could enable if they want to activate this list.
*** Bug 337107 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
I also haven't gotten used to this after several weeks of use. I don't neccesarilly think putting it on the right side of the window is the best option, but I agree that the current dialog continues to feel wrong. To re-iterate the use cases that seems to me the best example of why a persistant user list is a good thing (as I wrote in the bug just marked as a dupe of this one): ---------------------------------- It seems be impossible to do the following easilly with the current userlist dialog: 1) Make the user list visible 2) Visually track through the user list 3) Type selected nicknames in the text entry box. This can present problems in situations where a user/op wishes to address a message to several users in the user list without keeping a mental list of users present in the channel. Typing a nick with an awkward spelling can be nearly impossible without resorting to nick completion. It also presents difficulties when typing confidential messages, as it becomes awkward to know who might be listening. A message intended for a small audience can easilly be accidentally sent while someone you forgot was there is listening. The only visual indicator of a channel's population is the enter/leave notices in the text area, which may well have been scrolled away hours ago. ----------------------------------
*** Bug 349831 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Another duplicate concerning the user list. It has been some time ago since this was disccussed here, and if I'm correct one of the reasons that this could not be fixed was that the XChat-GNOME developers had other more important features to work on. Is there any chance that the developers now, or in the near future, have time to give this bug more priority?
If you read some of the old comments above, you'll see that the reason this was never done was because we are unwilling to add this kind of trivial feature to the UI. We felt at the time (and I hope still do) that moving the navigation tree to the right side of the window did little if anything to improve usability in any way, and would simply add more clutter to the UI in the preferences and more code to maintain.
That's a pity. Regardless if I'm flogging a dead horse now or not, I'll give my opinion once more. I consider this feature of the greatest importance for XChat-GNOME, because the lack of this feature does the opposite of what it is supposed to do, to increase the usability of an IRC client. I think bug #326496 describes it very well, (at least for that bug reporter) this is comparable to Gaim hiding the user list. In the end I think it all boils down to the use cases for an IRC client/XChat-GNOME, and the target audience of XChat-GNOME. I can think of two use cases of IRC, one as a mass communication medium, and one as an Instant Messaging medium. Sure there might be more, but that is all I can think of. Sometimes I visit IRC channels which have a huge amount of users and where I am not actively participating, just idling around. In those cases a user list would be less necessary because I don't need it very much then (less, but still enough for me to justify to have it displayed permanently). In other cases, I visit IRC channels where I'm a regular, and where I might want to talk to a specific person. In this use case I use IRC in nearly the same way as an IM application, and not having the user list being displayed permanently is extremely annoying in such a situation because I need to know if a specific person is available then. To satisfy both groups, those who think a user list is "clutter" and those who think a more conventional user list is essential, I made a proposal for a good compromise in comment #5. It is simple, just create a button to hide/extend a conventional user list, the users which have problems with the current user list could then simply press that button and have their traditional user list extend, while those who think it is clutter can keep it hidden. However, my design was ignored. Besides that, the current user list with the treeview is simply looking horrible. Take a look at this screenshot I created - http://www.svanloon.nl/currentuserlistuglyness.png - if you're in a channel with a lot of users, the treeview overlaps my menu bars, XChat-GNOME itself, and even the channel list and the chat area (!). Now this was supposed to give us better usability, but thanks to this overlapping I can only partially read what is being written in the channel. And then comes the target audience. The developers here have maintained that they think it is clutter, while in this bug report, including it's duplicates, there has been a relatively large amount of people who have criticised the user list. The question is, are you developing XChat-GNOME primarily in the interest of yourselves, or are you working to appease the average user as well? Even if the first is the case and you still you refuse to fix this issue, I respect that. However, this feature is of such importance for me that I will start a fork of XChat-GNOME. I don't have knowledge of C or GTK+, but I think implementing a relatively minor change shouldn't be to difficult.
Sander, i totaly agree with you but until David (x-g's maintainer) doesn't, i fear this issue will not changed.
I also agree, this isn't that important for me but the actual userlist isn't very 'nice'.
As a note, if somebody comes with a (correct) patch with an option for that I'm fine with using it for the Ubuntu package
Created attachment 102475 [details] [review] Patch Here's a patch that adds such an option. Also submitted it to Ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xchat-gnome/+bug/174624
Created attachment 102480 [details] [review] Patch v2 Sorry, that patch is broken. Here's a new one.
I gotta say this looks really nice. The proportions of the window sections fit a widescreen monitor very well anyways.
I have been using XChat since I've stopped using XChat-GNOME, but when I noticed this patch I downloaded XChat-GNOME 0.18, applied the patch and compiled to see if this patch could fix XChat-GNOME for me. This patch works perfectly and I have ditched XChat and switched to XChat-GNOME thanks to this patch. Sikon, thank you so much for your work. But of course I wonder if the position of the XChat-GNOME development team is still the same on this patch. This patch is the excellent compromise. The option "Show user list in main window" which this patch introduces in the "Preferences" dialog could be disabled by default, and those who like the current interface wouldn't be bothered at all by this patch, while those who want to use this patch are also made happy because they have the option to do so by enabling the option (even though I still think that this option should be default behaviour). I know this bug report has been rejected in the past, but is there really no way this patch can be considered for inclusion? By the way, I wonder Since October 2007 the only updates to the trunk of XChat-GNOME in the Subversion repository have consisted of translation updates and a one or two fixes for typos. Is the project dead or is this just a period of low activity?
*** Bug 445635 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Go and fork it, we may call it gnomechat :)
Andrea, I don't think it would be worth the trouble, because the Empathy developers already intend to produce a separate IRC application. And the Empathy developers are trying to get approval for getting Empathy included in GNOME. Read this http://cass.no-ip.com/~cassidy/blog/index.php/post/2008/02/18/Empathy-IRC-account-configuration and this http://blogs.gnome.org/xclaesse/2008/04/05/various-empathy-news/ weblog post. Let's wait and see if their IRC client will be better than xchat-gnome.
Yeah, Empathy is the futur :)
And now SoC projects are publicly accepted, I can tell you there is a projet about implementing a IRC client a-la-xchat-gnome for Empathy. http://code.google.com/soc/2008/gnome/appinfo.html?csaid=10DCC54D0D04A21A
Created attachment 148025 [details] [review] Patch v3 Here's an update patch, fixing a problem with the UI freezing when a user is right-clicked in the userlist.
looks good. Please use git snapshot, preference dialog has moved to GtkBuilder. reference - http://live.gnome.org/Xchat-Gnome
Created attachment 148598 [details] [review] git patch Here is the patch applied to the latest git revision. I also made it hide the "Discussion -> Users" menu when the user list is shown in the main window, since it is useless (and was bugged) in this mode.
Review of attachment 148598 [details] [review]: Looks good. Committing.
This problem has been fixed in the development version. The fix will be available in the next major software release. Thank you for your bug report.