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Bug 309646 - Split view filebrowsing
Split view filebrowsing
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: nautilus
Classification: Core
Component: Navigation
2.11.x
Other All
: Normal minor
: ---
Assigned To: Nautilus Maintainers
Nautilus Maintainers
: 489349 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2005-07-06 22:21 UTC by Rasmus Olsen
Modified: 2010-03-06 02:38 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: 2.11/2.12


Attachments
Screenshot of the Windows filebrowser FreeCommander (71.27 KB, image/png)
2008-05-27 14:53 UTC, Holger Berndt
Details
How it was doing in the Dolphin FM (126.37 KB, image/png)
2008-08-13 23:52 UTC, denis.cheremisov
Details
Now I use this method (337.08 KB, image/png)
2008-08-14 00:01 UTC, denis.cheremisov
Details

Description Rasmus Olsen 2005-07-06 22:21:19 UTC
One feature I believe Nautilus absolutely lacks, is to optionally use a split
view, Midnight Commander -like. Many people prefer Konqueror solely because
Nautilus lacks this feature. A whole lot of different windows, and drag+dropping
between them are ot always the most efficient way of performing simple file
operations.

Other information:
Comment 1 Christian Neumair 2005-07-13 15:52:38 UTC
Thanks for your bug report!
Doesn't the tree sidebar provide something comparable? Shouldn't we rather try
to fix issues with it? Would be nice to get some feedback from people working
with the tree sidebar.
Comment 2 Rasmus Olsen 2005-07-13 22:54:47 UTC
What I meant, would be something like this:
http://www.newtolinux.ukfsn.org/images/kde/konq-split2.png - Simply a new
subroutine and option to spawn such a splitview, perhaps in the place of the
tree view at the mercy of the user. IMHO it wouldn't make sense to create this
sort of functionality in the tree sidebar. Such a functionality makes it far
simpler to use Nautilus when working with ftp/samba/multiple directories. Maybe
I should crank up my coding skills a few hundred notches and give the coding a
try myself? ;)
Comment 3 Christian Neumair 2005-07-14 08:11:12 UTC
Usability team, is this desirable? At least for navigational Nautilus, this
could IMHO form a nice improvement.
Comment 4 Alan Horkan 2005-07-14 20:43:03 UTC
Irrespective of any usability issue I am sure it is something a lot of users
would like to have.  
I suspect the bigger more important question would be if "Nautilus Commander"
could be done in it clean and maintainable manner which is a techincal question
for interested developers and the maintainers to decide.  
Comment 5 Calum Benson 2005-07-15 17:22:08 UTC
Wow... I haven't seen apps that use split windows for years :)  (Well, apart
from OpenOffice I guess, but it's just copying Windows).

I someewhat agree with Christian... would be good to know exactly what the use
case is here, and why it would be more efficient than just opening two windows,
dragging into the Tree or Places sidebar, or using the new hierarchical list view.
Comment 6 Rasmus Olsen 2005-07-18 12:08:54 UTC
IMO opening new windows for new locations of file operations clutters screen
real estate, and is not very intuitive in many cases of file operations:
Copy/Move and SaMBa/FTP. In many cases, the user want to have the control of the
content of those two locations simultaniously (of course, the user could align
two nautilus windows vertically on their screen, but thats not actually very
intuitive). Tree or Places do provide easy manipulation of files on the folder
level, but not on the file-level when working with multiple locations.

Besides, I do agree on Alan Horkan's suspicion that the bigger question would be
whether "Nautilus Commander" could be implemented in a clean and manageable manner.
Comment 7 Holger Berndt 2007-11-21 09:50:38 UTC
Is there any news on this topic?

Another benefit of a split view over the "two separate Nautilus windows side by side" arrangement is that some standard keyboard shortcuts for file move/copy operations between these two directories could be easily offered (many programs use F5 for copy and F6 for move).

The lack of split view (and possibly tabs, see bug Bug 48034) is my biggest problem with Nautilus.
Comment 8 Cosimo Cecchi 2007-12-27 10:30:34 UTC
*** Bug 489349 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 9 sb 2007-12-27 11:13:01 UTC
I'll explain a bit more in detail my case from bug report 489349.

I'm often in a position where files or content need to be compared between 2 directories.  
The reasons being:
- files have been copied to different locations over time and comparison is needed to keep the most recent one.  Comparison is done via time stamp and size and content wise.
- manual backup needs to be taken because the organization doesn't provide a personal backup tool or synchronisation tool and doesn't allow one to be installed by the user itself.
- copying files from a different location but not knowing which ones you've already copied.  A visual verification is done, also checking if you have a more recent file.
- need to update/merge files which are in a different directory.  I often use the file browser to navigate to a file and then double click it to open it in the associated application.
- FTP! All the reasons that exist why you have a local view and remote view in FTP clients (ex. gFTP)

Advantages of split view is that a quick eye scan tells you the content matches or not.  
A click on split view button + maximizing nautilus -> 2 actions to get the maximum visibility on 2 directories.  Compare that to opening 2 nautilus windows and start resizing them to max out the view. Memory wise it could also be an improvement to have one nautilus open in stead of 2.

How it is implementation is something for the usability experts but I can give you my view on that if necessary :)
Comment 10 diego1188 2008-05-25 22:11:54 UTC
I agree with this suggestion... When I was a Kde user, I really found great the option to split the Konqueror window as many times as I wanted; comparing files, or dragging/dropping between more than tho windows was much easier with this option. I've never found another file manager with that flexibility...

I really hope that such a feature will be implemented in Nautilus.
Comment 11 Christian Neumair 2008-05-26 19:33:39 UTC
I am totally open to this. Technically, one can use the multiview branch as a basis for this work.

However, as I pointed out various times on the mailing list and on bugzilla, a convincing user interface concept has to be developed before hacking away.
Comment 12 sb 2008-05-27 14:39:44 UTC
Could you let me know your criteria for a convincing UI or direct me to some standard guidelines?  I'm willing to give this design a try.
Comment 13 Holger Berndt 2008-05-27 14:53:20 UTC
Created attachment 111612 [details]
Screenshot of the Windows filebrowser FreeCommander
Comment 14 Holger Berndt 2008-05-27 14:59:44 UTC
I just attached a screenshot of the Windows filebrowser FreeCommander to this bug. You can see a vertically split main window, and in each side, a directory. Move/Copy operations between those two directories are done with the (since Norton Commander quasi-standard) keybindings F5/F6.

In addition to that, you can see tabs (see Bug 48034) on each side of the split view. The tab titles correspond to the leaf nodes in the directory path displayed in this tab.

Below that is a bar that contains the directory path displayed on this side. The individual elements in this path are clickable for fast navigation up in the folder hierarchie, just like it it done now in Nautilus. On the right hand side of this bar are some buttons for useful operations (for example to copy a string of the directory path into the clipboard).

Below the file details, there is a bar containing disc space information, as well as information about selected files and selection filters.

I find this layout clean, yet very powerful and fast.
Comment 15 denis.cheremisov 2008-08-13 23:52:32 UTC
Created attachment 116540 [details]
How it was doing in the Dolphin FM

This screenshot shows how it can be done. I suppose the idea is very clear.
Comment 16 denis.cheremisov 2008-08-14 00:01:54 UTC
Created attachment 116541 [details]
Now I use this method

I use two opened nautilus. This approach is much worse because:
1) Metacity is very primitive WM, and it placed nautilus windows one over another, if they don't fit into the screen - it is very annoying, I need to move one of the windows to another place.
2) When I have one maximized window, and two nautilus ones, in the way shew in 
the shot, in the behind this maximized window, I need to choose both nautilus windows, although in the case of Dolphin I need to choose only one window
Comment 17 denis.cheremisov 2008-08-14 00:27:28 UTC
I think nautilus need in this capability very much. Definitely, it need in this more, than in useless tabs (I have no idea, why do they need in file manager). 

You can see in my screenshots typical usecase I have at my job: there is remote host, accessible through ssh, and another host, local machine on the shots, but it could be another remote host. I need to copy/move files from one host to another (usually, files are source files, binary packages, etc).
In the shots dolphin case looks more suit, because I can't see all the files in one nautilus window, but they might be folders I need put files in from other host.

The second disadvantage is that when I have three (or more) windows, and one window is maximized and active - I don't see nautiluses. When I need to copy files, I should choose one nautilus, than choose another, and only then I can copy files (of course, I can choose only one windows, and then choose another nautilus while dragging, but it significantly reduces the rate of this operation).

But the most important disadvantage is the way Metacity opens new windows: I enter one host through Places, than another. But both windows are placed at the same place, if they are too large to be fitted into the screen with other opened windows. So, one window can override another (it happens all the time, because I don't like to use small nautilus window), and I should move it. It is most annoying thing at my experience with such operations.
Comment 18 Bernhard Koenig 2008-11-19 07:55:15 UTC
Totally agree with this request, maximum number of points for it. Nautilus badly needs a split view, I'm currently using dolphin even though it's non-gnome native. Main reason is the above.

As was said before, opening two windows is not the same as having a split view since the windows are overlapping and I have to resize.
Comment 19 denis.cheremisov 2008-11-19 09:22:21 UTC
Bernhard, I hadn't tried nautilus tabs before writing my Comment #17, but they seems quite convenient for the purpose described above.
Comment 20 Bernhard Koenig 2008-11-19 09:52:27 UTC
Aha, thanks. Just checked the tabs in nautilus and it's better than nothing of course. But I still don't see how to get a real split view, i.e. see both tabs at the same time, one right one left.
Comment 21 denis.cheremisov 2008-11-19 12:44:50 UTC
Well, we have two choices now and only them:
1)   Each tab can have multiple views
2)   Each view can have multiple tabs.
2.1) Each tab is a potential view, each view is a potential tab.

First way is the worst - because we don't know where we copy/move item then dragging on tab. Dolphin use this approach (lol, these guys have never thought about usability :D:D:D), and they have solved this issue just by disabling copy/move on tab.
2 and 2.1 are pretty the same and the best choice. I think 2 is preferable, not 2.1.
Comment 22 Scott Lewin 2008-11-26 19:56:56 UTC
I highly agree with this.  A split view for nautilus would be amazing.  Like many others I want to be a Nautilus fan, but I am stuck using Konqueror in Gnome because of the lack of split view.

The split view would not even need to be as sophisticated as Konqueror.  A simple left/right split at the press of a button would be amazing.  Of course, the full functionality of horizontal and vertical splits would be better.

I tried using Nautilus with multiple windows as was suggested to me for a month and really did not like it.  It would take me a couple minutes to get the windows set up nicely just to transfer one file over ftp or samba.  That is not efficient at all.  I also tried the tabs, but I really don't like blindly adding files to a tab not knowing if it actually got there and went to the correct tab.
Comment 23 Holger Berndt 2009-02-20 09:06:02 UTC
I started working on this. The code is at http://github.com/hb/nautilus/tree/split-view

I also did a short screencast demo showing the current state, available on youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqBDEi17l2A
Comment 24 Bernhard Koenig 2009-02-20 19:09:16 UTC
Looks great! On the video it seems like you are pretty far already with the implementation. Will it be in 2.26?
Comment 25 denis.cheremisov 2009-02-20 20:04:17 UTC
Great! Thanks!
Comment 26 Holger Berndt 2009-02-21 21:14:57 UTC
No, it will certainly not be in 2.26. I am not a Nautilus dev, and this is merely a basis for discussion whether (and if so, how) split view browsing fits into Nautilus' concept, design goals, and UI.
Comment 27 Bernhard Koenig 2009-02-22 07:54:50 UTC
Well, but this is an upstream discussion. Maybe some nautilus devs can join, that would really be one of the most desired features of nautilus. If people don't want it in the general nautilus (because they say that should only contain the bare necessities), maybe it should be added as a plugin?
Comment 28 Holger Berndt 2009-03-16 18:32:02 UTC
Discussion is taking place on the nautilus mailing list, see the archives (e.g. http://www.nabble.com/Split-dual-pane-view-again-(but-this-time-with-code)-tt22099182.html#a22099182 )

I won't be possible to add the feature as a plugin. It affects the very core architecture of the application.
Comment 29 Holger Berndt 2009-07-21 08:24:27 UTC
There's now packages for Ubuntu Jaunty ( https://launchpad.net/~berndth/+archive/ppa ) and Arch Linux ( http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=26529 ) in case people want to try out and test. Please, if you do, report back.
Comment 30 Bernhard Koenig 2009-07-21 11:27:55 UTC
Thx!

1) I noticed that when you have an inactive list view pane, then it doesn't grey out. I wonder if that's intended? Similarly, I cannot click into the background of a list view pane to make the switch there, I have to click into the location bar of that pane. Guess that's the same issue.

2) Would it be possible for the view indicator (icon, list, or compact) to show which pane it is referring to? With the issue 1), you might not always see immediately, what the active pane is.

Actually, both issues are probly the same problem: more indication what the active pane is, especially with list view panes.
Comment 31 Holger Berndt 2009-07-21 11:59:39 UTC
Thanks for your feedback, Bernhard!

Concerning 1)
I uploaded a package this morning that greys out the background in list view as well.

Clicking the background is actually a focus issue in master. I filed Bug #589088 and attached a patch to fix that yesterday, but did not include the patch in the repo yet. 

Concerning 2)
The view indicator refers to the currently active pane. I used to have two indicator widgets next to the button bars, but that ate up too much horizontal space. But I guess with a fixed visual indication of the active pane even in list view, the current state should be fine.
Comment 32 Bernhard Koenig 2009-08-17 21:51:35 UTC
Will this be in GNOME 2.28? It's absolutely stable and I don't see why it shouldn't be included in the next release.
Comment 33 Holger Berndt 2009-08-18 07:24:07 UTC
No, it won't be in 2.28. It's a massive patchset, it's late in the cycle and review resources are limited. In fact, I didn't even request a review yet. I'll do that for next cycle. So, if there's enough manpower for a review then, and it is successful, split view might end up in 2.30.
Comment 34 Holger Berndt 2010-03-06 02:38:04 UTC
It's in git master now. Closing.