GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 300655
"Archive Manager" doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an "archive" is
Last modified: 2020-11-11 19:15:17 UTC
This bug has been opened here: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/9188 "A new user thinks "I need to create a zip file", and doesn't know how to do it. If you don't know that a zip file is an "archive", which many new users do not, then it's very difficult to tell how to create one. "Create archive" on the Nautilus context menu, "Archive Manager" in the Applications menu, etc, are all meaningless. (This happened to me today when someone I know rang me for technical support to ask how to create a zip file, and when I explained how, he said "what's an archive?") Suggested fixes (to be taken with a very large pinch of salt and replaced with better suggestions): Change "Create archive" to "Create compressed file" on the context menu Change "Archive Manager" to "Compressed Files" on the Applications menu (with tooltip "Create and edit compressed files")"
I know the current strings are not idea but I cant help thinking your suggestions are not any better. For people who know about "Zip files" using that term might help but generic term Archive really seems like the best way to go long term. I wonder where exactly people look for Archive programs if they have not already been conditioned to expect it in a certain place? Might it not be better to offer an option "Send to Email" (or similar) and have the compression taken care of as automatically as possible? Can we avoid the problem entirely by making things work smarter not harder for the ordinary user?
The reason I filed this was from direct experience with a reasonably savvy computer user who has recently been using Gnome. He rang me up with the query "Where's something that works like WinZip, so that I can zip together some files?" I said "Try 'Archive Manager'", and he revealed that he had seen that in his search for an appropriate application but had no idea what it was, because an "archive" is a big dusty room full of files and books. While I appreciate that if it says "create zip archive" then people will complain that there's nowhere to make rar files, it seemed reasonable to me (and was confirmed with a (fairly small) straw poll of reasonably-savvy computer users) that people don't know what an "archive" is, hence my suggestions. I'm not particularly pushing *those* suggestions, I'm just angling for a change away from the generic (and therefore unknown) "Archive Manager". I don't think that integrating it into a larger task (like "Send to Email") is a good idea, because sometimes the task is purely "to make a zip file", not to then do something else with it (other than stash that file somewhere).
"File Zipper"?
it creates tar.gz, tar.bz2, .rar and a few others, not just .zip. Also, by default it creates tgz if you use Archive -> New in file-roller menu, and with the Nautilus context menu it defaults to the last archive type created. This should be fixed too.
Note that the verb "zip" cannot be translated to other languages.
It seems that the problem is that the dictionary definition of "archive" and the compressed files notion of "archive" don't really have a lot of similarity. I think that "Archive Manager" isprobably as good as you are going to get. Looking at the WinZip web site, they never talk about archives, only "zipping" or "unzipping" files. I think the only more descriptive name would be "Compressed File Bundle Manager" but that sure is cumbersome, isn't it?
I agree that "Compressed File Bundle Manager" is cumbersome, but "Archive Manager" is a useless title if ordinary people don't know what it means, and they don't. Its "correctness" or otherwise is surely beside the point?
While I hate to admit it, I agree that for the uneducated masses, terms like 'Archive Manager', 'Create Archive', etc don't cut it. Perhaps there should be 2 english translations - one for experts, and one for new users. We keep the the descriptions as they are, but new users get more hinting, and terms that make the purests amongst us shudder. For example, when a new user clicks on a file / folder, an options such as: 'Create a ZIP file ..." or: 'Create an archive ( ZIP file ) ..." is far more intuitive than: "Create an archive ..." I can just see the new Windows vs OS-X vs Linux usability study where users can't zip a file because they don't recognise what an 'archive' is.
I've never been convinced that 'archive' is an accurate word for the object. 'Compressed File', however, gets across the message much better. Also, while zip files themselves are the most likely format to be useful in most cases, I don't see why all compressed files should be grouped under that term. It's just not correct. So, what exactly is wrong with "Create a compressed file..." in Nautilus?
(In reply to comment #0) > This bug has been opened here: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/9188 Link for this anywhere in the Ubuntu Launchpad system: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/file-roller/+bug/15495 Something about this discussion reminds me of how Americans call a tissue a "Kleenex" using the brand instead of the generic name. It would be nice if we could do some usability tests on Mac users who expect Stuffit and Windows users who are used to Winzip (and possibly zip since Win XP supports it natively) and then users who are not already familiar with either brand and see how well the description of Archive manager stands up. In practice I'm not sure anyone is actually going to do it though. Presumably KDE has similar issue with their compression program Ark, perhaps they have some insight which might be of some use? It would be good to see patches which made it easy to reconfigure and rebrand File-Roller, changing various labels like "Archive Manager" and make it easier to out other different labelling ideas without forking. I am still interested by the assumptions in the idea "I need to create a zip file" since there may be underlying problems we can attack rather than trying to fix a label which is a symptom. Users think they need Zip because it is the archive format they know best but without knowing why exactly. The higher compression of gzip or bzip2 might be what they really need, or the need might be tricks to bypass not very clever mail filters which leads back to my previous suggestion of finding some way to cleanly integrate a compression tool into the mail program. There does seem to be a request roughlyy along those lines to compress attachments: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=227542 It does seem like the reasons to change the label Archive Manager are not yet compelling enough to overcome the inertia of the existing name. This bug report could remain open for a very long time.
In my current version with Gnome 2.16.1 and File Roller also 2.16.1. Here's my take. * Archive or Zip? Whatever the correct generic term for a compressed file is - that's what gnome should use. I strongly disagree with the idea that we should give the .zip compression algorithm any more importance than the others. * Usability of term 'Archive' Many new users don't know what an archive is, so I think the tool tips and dexcriptions should always include the term 'compress'. Suggestions: * Tooltip in menu for 'Archive Manager' should include the word 'compress'. 2.16.1 tooltip text is 'Create and modify an archive'. A suggested change is to instead use 'Create and manage compressed data' or 'Compress and uncompress your data'. * Tooltip in Nautilus 2.16.1 on the right-click context menu is 'Create an archive with the selected objects' (44 char). A suggested change is 'Compress the selected objects into an archive' (45 char).
Created attachment 137364 [details] [review] suggestions from the design team at Canonical the canonical design team looked at that and suggest "I recommend Compress because all the participants could predict what that might do and why they might use it and terms like Archive and Zip were less clear to people. To quote one participant: "I know what a zip is on my jacket?" Based on research, the solution from the design team is: * In the context menu rename "Create Archive" to "Compress..." * The subsequent dialog box should be re-titled to read: "Create compressed file" * The input box on the dialog box should be re-labelled from 'Archive' to 'Filename'"
Maybe I just read things too literally, but I would expect a menu item called "Compress" to compress the file in place. I wouldn't be surprised to see some users not click it because they're afraid it will do something to their original file.
Perhaps "Create compressed file.." would be better than "Compress". Even so, I'm not sure a name change would make this more usable for users looking for a zip file. For total newbies, neither name is going to clearly explain what will be created. Another suggestion, by Beni Cherniavsky at [1], is to change "Create Archive.." to a submenu, in the hope that it's more informational to users looking for specific file formats like zip. It may be acceptable wording for it to be called "Save as.." or "Convert to..". Users looking for zip file support are more likely to check the submenu than they are to click on "Create Archive..". Andy Hertzfeld once said that he intended Nautilus to be more of a graphical shell than a file manager.[2] Adding this sort of submenu would support that by providing a generic mechanism for format conversion plugins in Nautilus. Each item could pop up a format specific dialog to configure the conversion, and the item's tooltip would summarize why someone would want to convert to that format, e.g. "PNG is a lossless image compression format that most users can view", or "Zip is an archive format that can be extracted by most users, but doesn't compress very well". [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/15495 [2] http://www.pbs.org/cringely/nerdtv/transcripts/001.html
"File Compressor" ?
rather than any drastic change in terminology, how about something slightly more expressive; i.e. "Create an archive (e.g. zip, tar.gz, etc.)".
(In reply to comment #13) > Maybe I just read things too literally, but I would expect a menu item called > "Compress" to compress the file in place. I wouldn't be surprised to see some > users not click it because they're afraid it will do something to their > original file. While it would be good with a follow up how participants performed with the new terminology, it seems like the current terminology creates some really big issues for people, so we need to fix this. Perhaps we should go through with Seb's patch, and then see if we can do a study on the new terminology.
Tape archives (TAR) and object archives (AR) are uncompressed.
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