GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 137428
No layout-switch shortcut by default
Last modified: 2006-07-06 14:34:57 UTC
The ability to switch keyboard layouts with a keyboard shortcut (such as pressing both shift keys at the same time) is maybe the most important GNOME keyboard layout functionality. But, by default, no such shortcut is set by default. So people must go to the confusing Layout options tab. Most people will never find how to set a shortcut, and other people will choose a random shortcut. I am sure that every X server supports this functionality, and I am sure that there is a keyboard shortcut that every X server can use for this functionality. Not everyone will like our default, but they are a miniority, and they can change it.
I lower the priority just to improve the statistics for 2.6 release:) After it, we can raize it again. Anyway, I am not going to consider this bug before I realize how libklxavier will live in xmodmap world. That's for sure - because xmodmap can break any reasonable assumptions about availability of the default options.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm /me is not overly fond of people doing bugzilla priority diddling... anyway it should be normal.
Should it go to 2.6.1 or 2.7?
It would break feature freeze, so 2.7.
OK. I will just wait for 2.6 to branch in g-c-c - and start fixing.
I disagree, the feature is there, it's just not enabled by default. If this can be fixed without adding ui or strings I'd say it's a plain bugfix.
Well, from my POV automatical setup of the switchcut is a NEW FEATURE. No new UI necessary, true. Possibly, some new error message will appear in the strings (most probably not).
I don't have strong feelings on the matter. (But if Sergey doen't want to implement it before 2.8, which appears to be the case, it doesn't really matter whether it's freeze-breaking or not :P)
Really, I would prefer to keep it till 2.8. Especially with all the discussions going around, concerning the keyboard capplet should be reorganized/split/usability improved/... It may easily happen than someone will come up with some absolutely new revolutionary design, so it would save me some code to type and throw into the trash bin.
Hey, you're the maintainer: just want to make it clear no-one's trying to pressure you here :)
ok:). So we target this to 2.8. And the real work ... well, probably after d-d-l settles the overall keyboard management usability.
Well, still noone told me what this default shortcut should be. I am ready to commit the code - but first we have to agree on the default shortcut. This even wouldn't break String/UI freeze - it is going to be just small tweak.
OK. I assume "Alt+Shift". If someone is not happy - feel free to blame. Fixed in CVS.
Do you mean that pressing Alt and Shift together will switch keyboard layouts? That sounds bad because it interferes with keyboard combinations that use Alt-Shift, such as Alt-Shift-ArrowDown in Nautilus.
I see your point. But AFAIK this is the default shortcut on MSWin - so I used it (just because some people used to it). If you have any better suggestions - you're welcome to express. Personally, I use RCtrl. The only problem for me is that I have no strict criteria for the "best" switcher - for any one, there will be some "clashing" with some application...
> this is default shortcut on MSWin Windows uses different key combinations, so this is probably less of a problem. I think this is a bad default, though luckily it won't affect people until they add a second keyboard layout. Could you suggest alternatives? How about Shift-Alt-Ctrl or both Left and Right Alt-Shifts?
Shift-Alt-Ctrl does not exist in today's X servers (easy to add, but we cannot rely on it). Both Alts are ok. Both Shift are ok as well (and can be used in MSWin). The only thing is that long pressing of the "Shift" buttons invokes "Sticky Keys Alert". So, both Alts look as the most reasonable default switcher (I foresee some people killing me for not following MSWin standards:)
That's fine with me. You might want to ask other people though.
Once I tried to raise the issue (at d-d-l or usability - do not remember exactly) - got no answer. Murray, would you try again please - probably people will hear your question better than mine?:)
I have asked again on usability@gnome.org, so people have the chance to point out problems. If you want to change the keyboard-combination from Shift-Alt to something else (such as both Alts or both Shifts) then I would approve that harmless freeze break (you need 2 approvals). Don't waste too much time choosing between equally-good choices. Thank you.
I think both Alts should be pretty safe-- it's reasonably mnemonic, not something you'd normally press on the way to some other shortcut, and shouldn't interfere with any AccessX stuff.
I commented on the usability list, explaining that Alt+shift is too easy to hit accidentally. Shift+Shift sounds fine but ... Alt+AltGr sounds best because it makes a little bit more sense for switching to Alterntive keyboard layouts.
OK. If I get no voices "contra", I'll change it to "Alt*2" this weekend. No objections. BTW, how many laptops do have only one Alt - anyone knows?
Both Alts seem reasonable to me if it doesn't interfere with the AccessX stuff.
Sorry, this is dangerously close to a "me too" type response... I like the idea of both alt keys because it follows a precident that keyboard mode type switches don't include any alphanumeric characters. "on many operating systems, pressing the Shift key 5 times turns on Sticky Keys" "In Windows, holding down the right Shift key for 8 seconds turns on Filter Keys." "And on the Macintosh, pressing Command-Shift-Clear enables MouseKeys." --http://accessit.nda.ie/guideline_4_30.html The windows combination is a terrible choice because of the proximity of the physical keys in the shortcut (especially if you sometimes mash modifiers like me); however, it still is modifiers only. Many laptop keyboards lack the second alt key. (Research a la google images and personal knowledge.) The two alt combination sounds good to me despite not being universal on all laptops for two reasons: -Laptop users are used to making concessions for the smaller form factor -Laptops are usually much more personal. Many people switch keyboard layouts because of necessity in a shared environment. (eg QWERTY to Dvorak)
Alt*2 is committed a week ago: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-control-center/capplets/keyboard/gnome-keyboard-properties-xkblt.c?r1=1.6&r2=1.7