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Bug 135863 - "Zip" unfortunate terminology in file-roller
"Zip" unfortunate terminology in file-roller
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: file-roller
Classification: Applications
Component: general
unspecified
Other All
: Normal normal
: ---
Assigned To: Paolo Bacchilega
Paolo Bacchilega
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2004-03-01 19:19 UTC by Christian Rose
Modified: 2004-12-22 21:47 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Christian Rose 2004-03-01 19:19:20 UTC
#: component/File_Roller_Component.server.in.in.h:5
msgid "Zip Objects..."

#: file-roller.desktop.in.h:2
msgid "Zip Creator"

#: file-roller.desktop.in.h:1
msgid "Create and modify zips and other archive types"

#: src/dlg-batch-add.c:101 src/dlg-batch-add.c:126 src/dlg-batch-add.c:166
msgid "Could not zip objects"

#: src/dlg-batch-add.c:185
msgid "Zip not performed"

#: src/dlg-prop.c:149
msgid "Zipped on:"

#: src/file_roller.glade.h:12
msgid "Zip Objects"

#: src/file_roller.glade.h:19
msgid "_Zip"


"Zip" is a very unfortunate terminology choice.


From a translation standpoint, "a zip" and "zips" are unfortunate nouns as
they are artificially created nouns in English, and translating them
invokes all kinds of trouble with getting the gender and other grammar
right. Calling "a zip" "a zip archive" and "zips" "zip archives" instead
would be much better in this respect.

Another drawback with using "zip" is that it is used both as a noun and as
a verb, and that both the forms are equivalent in English. This leaves much
ambiguity to translators. Does "Zip Objects" refer to teh action of
compressing objects with zip, or does it refer to objects already
compressed with zip? Almost impossible to know for a translator, and the
difference is crucial.

The third drawback for translation is that "to zip" is an artifically
created verb. Many other languages do not allow for verbs to be created
this way, and thus the translation is very difficult.


From an usability perspective, this terminology would also appear to have
severe problems. "To zip" doesn't give any novice user any clue that this
is equal to the action of packaging files into an archive and compressing
it. To "get" the terminology choice, the user must already be familiar with
the Zip format as used on the Windows platform.
Also, assuming that the user *is* familiar with that particular format, the
terminology is often misleading, as File roller with many different types
of archives and not just zip files.


I suggest using "compress" as the verb and "compressed archive" as the noun
instead whenever it's not zip-specific. In case it's a zip-specific message
I suggest using "compress using zip format" and "zip compressed archive".
Comment 1 Breda McColgan 2004-03-02 13:12:58 UTC
Hello all,

as the writer currently responsible for the online reference manual
for File Roller, I'd like to add my two cent[1] to this bug.

I agree that the noun and verb "zip" should be changed.
I suggest the following changes:


GUI
===

1. System Tools menu item:
   Zip Creator --> Archive Manager

2. Properties dialog (Archive -> Properties) label:
   Zipped on --> Modified on

3. File Manager right-click popup menu item and dialog title:
   Zip Objects --> Add to Archive

4. File Manager "Add to Archive" dialog button:
   Zip --> Add


Strings
=======

5. #: component/File_Roller_Component.server.in.in.h:5
   msgid "Zip Objects..."
   --> "Add to Archive" [2]

6. #: file-roller.desktop.in.h:2
   msgid "Zip Creator"
   --> "Archive Manager" [2]

7. #: file-roller.desktop.in.h:1
   msgid "Create and modify zips and other archive types"
   --> "Create and modify an archive" [3]

8. #: src/dlg-batch-add.c:101 src/dlg-batch-add.c:126
src/dlg-batch-add.c:166
   msgid "Could not zip objects"
   --> "Could not add to archive"

9. #: src/dlg-batch-add.c:185
   msgid "Zip not performed"
   --> "Not added to archive"

10. #: src/dlg-prop.c:149
    msgid "Zipped on:"
    --> "Modified on" [2]

11. #: src/file_roller.glade.h:12
    msgid "Zip Objects"
    --> "Add to Archive" [2]

12. #: src/file_roller.glade.h:19
    msgid "_Zip"
    --> "Add" [2]



Note that there is a difference between an archive and a compressed
file, as shown by the following definitions from the American Heritage
Dictionary:

"Archive:
  [noun] 2. <Computer Science> ...(b) A file containing one or more
files in compressed format for more efficient storage and transfer.
  [verb] 2. <Computer Science> To copy or compress (a file) into an
archive."

"Compress: 3. <Computer Science> To transform (data) to minimize the
space required for storage or transmission: compressed the file so
that it could be downloaded efficiently. "


So you could have:
a) An uncompressed archive, e.g. file.tar
b) A compressed archive e.g. file.tar.gz
c) A compressed non-archive [that is, single file], e.g. file.txt.gz
[4]



Eugene -- what do you think? [5]


Regards,
Breda.


[1] In euro currency, the plural of "cent" is "cent" :)

[2] I have assumed that these strings directly correspond to the GUI
strings listed in the first part of this post.

[3] "archive" is similar to "zip" in that "archive" can be a noun or a
verb, so I have included the article "an" here to clarify that this
usage is a noun. In any case, although you can use File Roller to 
open several archives, each archive is opened in a separate window and
File Roller acts on only one archive at a time. Therefore, "an
archive" is more accurate than "archives", as well as less 
ambiguous :)

[4] You can use File Roller to open and extract a compressed
non-archive file, but you cannot use File Roller to create or modify a
compressed non-archive file.

[5] This topic is also being discussed on the gnome-doc-list mailing
list.
Comment 2 Eugene O'Connor 2004-03-02 14:52:59 UTC
I agree with Breda's suggestions.

Do we need to add archive to the GDSG Wordlist if it is already
adequately defined in the AHD? I think it would be sufficient to add
the following:

zip
Do not use this term. Use the term archive. 

Adding Pat to CC line.
Comment 3 Paolo Bacchilega 2004-03-02 19:05:08 UTC
The term "zip" was suggested during an ui-review, take a look at the
bug #131247 that contains the irc discussion.
Perhaps you want to talk with Seth Nickell who suggested the term.
Comment 4 Breda McColgan 2004-03-03 09:16:29 UTC
Adding both Seth and Calum to the CC list.

I still think that Archive Manager is a more descriptive name. This
application does handle non-archive files, but is mainly for archive
files. "zip" is too restrictive, as well as problematic for I18N, as
noted above.
Comment 5 Paolo Bacchilega 2004-03-03 18:10:36 UTC
>3. File Manager right-click popup menu item and dialog title:
>   Zip Objects --> Add to Archive
 
I don't like "Add to Archive" very much, what you do here is to
compress a file
or a folder or a set of files/folders.
 
"Add to Archive" means to me that I have to choose an existing
archive, but the
main use of this command is to create a new compressed archive that
will contain the selected objects.
 
Suggested terms:  "Compress" or "Compress Objects"
 
note: objects is already used by Nautilus in the status bar to specify
both files and folders
 
>4. File Manager "Add to Archive" dialog button:
>   Zip --> Add
 
Same as above, I prefer "Compress"
 
In general what I suggest is to replace "zip" with "compress" when
used a verb,
and with "archive" when used as noum.
Comment 6 Breda McColgan 2004-03-03 18:33:23 UTC
Well, you can use this menu item to add the selected file to a new
archive or to an existing archive, so I think "Add to Archive" is
acceptable. 

But as you don't like that option, how about "Archive File" instead? 
I don't think there's any need to say "Archive Objects" -- none of the
other menu items include the word "Objects", and the statusbar refers
to "selected file" or "selected item". The Edit menu still says "Cut
File" and "Copy File" even when I've selected a folder, so I think
"Archive File" should be fine.

"Compress File" would be my second choice, because I'm not sure that
you would necessarily always be compressing the selected file -- for
example, if you create a .tar file? 

Or are tar files by definition already compressed, and a compressed
tar file (.tar.gz) has double compression? If this is the case, then
I'm happy to go with "Compress File".
Comment 7 Paolo Bacchilega 2004-03-04 09:45:15 UTC
>"Compress File" would be my second choice, because I'm not sure that
>you would necessarily always be compressing the selected file -- for
>example, if you create a .tar file? 

uncompressed tar archives are rare, what you do 99% of the times is to
create a compressed archive.

"Compress File" is good only when you have selected a single file, but
 you can select multiple files or even files and folders, so if
"Compress Objects" is not good I'd simply use "Compress".
Comment 8 Breda McColgan 2004-03-04 11:37:03 UTC
Okay, I'm happy with just "Compress" :) 

How about everybody else?
Comment 9 Paolo Bacchilega 2004-03-05 14:33:55 UTC
another possible label could be "Create Archive", what do you think?
Comment 10 Christian Rose 2004-03-06 20:45:37 UTC
Committing this now broke string freeze.
Comment 11 Breda McColgan 2004-03-08 12:29:14 UTC
"Create Archive" does not indicate that you can add to an existing
archive. I think "Compress" is the best suggestion.

Should I make any updates to the File Roller manual for GNOME 2.6, or
are these changes planned for GNOME 2.8?
Comment 12 Christian Rose 2004-03-08 19:38:02 UTC
We've asked for these changes to be reverted in 2.6, so it's probably
2.8 material.
Comment 13 Christian Rose 2004-03-11 11:17:08 UTC
Ok, we've taken back our request for this to be reverted. Not because
we're suddenly happy about it, but because it reverting at this point
would cause much extra work for the many translators that have already
adopted their translations (see
http://lists.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2004-March/msg00154.html).
So Breda, you may want to update the docs to reflect the current
terminology.
Comment 14 Breda McColgan 2004-03-11 13:00:51 UTC
Just tried to build File Roller 2.5.6 from the ftp site, but failed. I
get the same error when I try to build from the latest code in
CVSHEAD. I've mailed the error text to Paolo. Can someone please
confirm that the following are the changes that I need to make:

1. System Tools menu item:
   Zip Creator --> Archive Manager

2. Properties dialog (Archive -> Properties) label:
   Zipped on --> Modified on

3. File Manager right-click popup menu item and dialog title:
   Zip Objects --> Compress

4. File Manager "Add to Archive" dialog button:
   Zip --> Compress

Thanks,
Breda.
Comment 15 Breda McColgan 2004-03-11 14:58:47 UTC
I had a look through the code and made the following changes to the
manual based on what I found:

1. System Tools menu item:
   Zip Creator --> Archive Manager

2. Properties dialog (Archive -> Properties) label:
   Zipped on --> Modified on

3. File Manager right-click popup menu item and dialog title:
   Zip Objects --> Create Archive

4. File Manager "Add to Archive" dialog button:
   Zip --> Create


I've put the updated manual back to CVS.
Comment 16 Breda McColgan 2004-03-15 15:41:03 UTC
Finally managed to build File Roller 2.5.6, and have confirmed that
the changes that I described above are correct.

Christian, can we close this bug now or are there any outstanding
issues?
Comment 17 Christian Rose 2004-03-16 11:24:25 UTC
Can probably be closed now.
Comment 18 Eugene O'Connor 2004-03-16 12:35:35 UTC
I'll update the GDSG Recommended Terminology to include the
conclusions from this bug, probably in April. But I think that
shouldn't stop the bug being closed.
Comment 19 Christian Rose 2004-03-16 13:35:20 UTC
Ok, closing.