GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 135863
"Zip" unfortunate terminology in file-roller
Last modified: 2004-12-22 21:47:04 UTC
#: component/File_Roller_Component.server.in.in.h:5 msgid "Zip Objects..." #: file-roller.desktop.in.h:2 msgid "Zip Creator" #: file-roller.desktop.in.h:1 msgid "Create and modify zips and other archive types" #: src/dlg-batch-add.c:101 src/dlg-batch-add.c:126 src/dlg-batch-add.c:166 msgid "Could not zip objects" #: src/dlg-batch-add.c:185 msgid "Zip not performed" #: src/dlg-prop.c:149 msgid "Zipped on:" #: src/file_roller.glade.h:12 msgid "Zip Objects" #: src/file_roller.glade.h:19 msgid "_Zip" "Zip" is a very unfortunate terminology choice. From a translation standpoint, "a zip" and "zips" are unfortunate nouns as they are artificially created nouns in English, and translating them invokes all kinds of trouble with getting the gender and other grammar right. Calling "a zip" "a zip archive" and "zips" "zip archives" instead would be much better in this respect. Another drawback with using "zip" is that it is used both as a noun and as a verb, and that both the forms are equivalent in English. This leaves much ambiguity to translators. Does "Zip Objects" refer to teh action of compressing objects with zip, or does it refer to objects already compressed with zip? Almost impossible to know for a translator, and the difference is crucial. The third drawback for translation is that "to zip" is an artifically created verb. Many other languages do not allow for verbs to be created this way, and thus the translation is very difficult. From an usability perspective, this terminology would also appear to have severe problems. "To zip" doesn't give any novice user any clue that this is equal to the action of packaging files into an archive and compressing it. To "get" the terminology choice, the user must already be familiar with the Zip format as used on the Windows platform. Also, assuming that the user *is* familiar with that particular format, the terminology is often misleading, as File roller with many different types of archives and not just zip files. I suggest using "compress" as the verb and "compressed archive" as the noun instead whenever it's not zip-specific. In case it's a zip-specific message I suggest using "compress using zip format" and "zip compressed archive".
Hello all, as the writer currently responsible for the online reference manual for File Roller, I'd like to add my two cent[1] to this bug. I agree that the noun and verb "zip" should be changed. I suggest the following changes: GUI === 1. System Tools menu item: Zip Creator --> Archive Manager 2. Properties dialog (Archive -> Properties) label: Zipped on --> Modified on 3. File Manager right-click popup menu item and dialog title: Zip Objects --> Add to Archive 4. File Manager "Add to Archive" dialog button: Zip --> Add Strings ======= 5. #: component/File_Roller_Component.server.in.in.h:5 msgid "Zip Objects..." --> "Add to Archive" [2] 6. #: file-roller.desktop.in.h:2 msgid "Zip Creator" --> "Archive Manager" [2] 7. #: file-roller.desktop.in.h:1 msgid "Create and modify zips and other archive types" --> "Create and modify an archive" [3] 8. #: src/dlg-batch-add.c:101 src/dlg-batch-add.c:126 src/dlg-batch-add.c:166 msgid "Could not zip objects" --> "Could not add to archive" 9. #: src/dlg-batch-add.c:185 msgid "Zip not performed" --> "Not added to archive" 10. #: src/dlg-prop.c:149 msgid "Zipped on:" --> "Modified on" [2] 11. #: src/file_roller.glade.h:12 msgid "Zip Objects" --> "Add to Archive" [2] 12. #: src/file_roller.glade.h:19 msgid "_Zip" --> "Add" [2] Note that there is a difference between an archive and a compressed file, as shown by the following definitions from the American Heritage Dictionary: "Archive: [noun] 2. <Computer Science> ...(b) A file containing one or more files in compressed format for more efficient storage and transfer. [verb] 2. <Computer Science> To copy or compress (a file) into an archive." "Compress: 3. <Computer Science> To transform (data) to minimize the space required for storage or transmission: compressed the file so that it could be downloaded efficiently. " So you could have: a) An uncompressed archive, e.g. file.tar b) A compressed archive e.g. file.tar.gz c) A compressed non-archive [that is, single file], e.g. file.txt.gz [4] Eugene -- what do you think? [5] Regards, Breda. [1] In euro currency, the plural of "cent" is "cent" :) [2] I have assumed that these strings directly correspond to the GUI strings listed in the first part of this post. [3] "archive" is similar to "zip" in that "archive" can be a noun or a verb, so I have included the article "an" here to clarify that this usage is a noun. In any case, although you can use File Roller to open several archives, each archive is opened in a separate window and File Roller acts on only one archive at a time. Therefore, "an archive" is more accurate than "archives", as well as less ambiguous :) [4] You can use File Roller to open and extract a compressed non-archive file, but you cannot use File Roller to create or modify a compressed non-archive file. [5] This topic is also being discussed on the gnome-doc-list mailing list.
I agree with Breda's suggestions. Do we need to add archive to the GDSG Wordlist if it is already adequately defined in the AHD? I think it would be sufficient to add the following: zip Do not use this term. Use the term archive. Adding Pat to CC line.
The term "zip" was suggested during an ui-review, take a look at the bug #131247 that contains the irc discussion. Perhaps you want to talk with Seth Nickell who suggested the term.
Adding both Seth and Calum to the CC list. I still think that Archive Manager is a more descriptive name. This application does handle non-archive files, but is mainly for archive files. "zip" is too restrictive, as well as problematic for I18N, as noted above.
>3. File Manager right-click popup menu item and dialog title: > Zip Objects --> Add to Archive I don't like "Add to Archive" very much, what you do here is to compress a file or a folder or a set of files/folders. "Add to Archive" means to me that I have to choose an existing archive, but the main use of this command is to create a new compressed archive that will contain the selected objects. Suggested terms: "Compress" or "Compress Objects" note: objects is already used by Nautilus in the status bar to specify both files and folders >4. File Manager "Add to Archive" dialog button: > Zip --> Add Same as above, I prefer "Compress" In general what I suggest is to replace "zip" with "compress" when used a verb, and with "archive" when used as noum.
Well, you can use this menu item to add the selected file to a new archive or to an existing archive, so I think "Add to Archive" is acceptable. But as you don't like that option, how about "Archive File" instead? I don't think there's any need to say "Archive Objects" -- none of the other menu items include the word "Objects", and the statusbar refers to "selected file" or "selected item". The Edit menu still says "Cut File" and "Copy File" even when I've selected a folder, so I think "Archive File" should be fine. "Compress File" would be my second choice, because I'm not sure that you would necessarily always be compressing the selected file -- for example, if you create a .tar file? Or are tar files by definition already compressed, and a compressed tar file (.tar.gz) has double compression? If this is the case, then I'm happy to go with "Compress File".
>"Compress File" would be my second choice, because I'm not sure that >you would necessarily always be compressing the selected file -- for >example, if you create a .tar file? uncompressed tar archives are rare, what you do 99% of the times is to create a compressed archive. "Compress File" is good only when you have selected a single file, but you can select multiple files or even files and folders, so if "Compress Objects" is not good I'd simply use "Compress".
Okay, I'm happy with just "Compress" :) How about everybody else?
another possible label could be "Create Archive", what do you think?
Committing this now broke string freeze.
"Create Archive" does not indicate that you can add to an existing archive. I think "Compress" is the best suggestion. Should I make any updates to the File Roller manual for GNOME 2.6, or are these changes planned for GNOME 2.8?
We've asked for these changes to be reverted in 2.6, so it's probably 2.8 material.
Ok, we've taken back our request for this to be reverted. Not because we're suddenly happy about it, but because it reverting at this point would cause much extra work for the many translators that have already adopted their translations (see http://lists.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2004-March/msg00154.html). So Breda, you may want to update the docs to reflect the current terminology.
Just tried to build File Roller 2.5.6 from the ftp site, but failed. I get the same error when I try to build from the latest code in CVSHEAD. I've mailed the error text to Paolo. Can someone please confirm that the following are the changes that I need to make: 1. System Tools menu item: Zip Creator --> Archive Manager 2. Properties dialog (Archive -> Properties) label: Zipped on --> Modified on 3. File Manager right-click popup menu item and dialog title: Zip Objects --> Compress 4. File Manager "Add to Archive" dialog button: Zip --> Compress Thanks, Breda.
I had a look through the code and made the following changes to the manual based on what I found: 1. System Tools menu item: Zip Creator --> Archive Manager 2. Properties dialog (Archive -> Properties) label: Zipped on --> Modified on 3. File Manager right-click popup menu item and dialog title: Zip Objects --> Create Archive 4. File Manager "Add to Archive" dialog button: Zip --> Create I've put the updated manual back to CVS.
Finally managed to build File Roller 2.5.6, and have confirmed that the changes that I described above are correct. Christian, can we close this bug now or are there any outstanding issues?
Can probably be closed now.
I'll update the GDSG Recommended Terminology to include the conclusions from this bug, probably in April. But I think that shouldn't stop the bug being closed.
Ok, closing.