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Bug 131875 - "%s's desktop" genitive in gnome-panel difficult to translate
"%s's desktop" genitive in gnome-panel difficult to translate
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: gnome-panel
Classification: Other
Component: general
unspecified
Other All
: Normal normal
: ---
Assigned To: Panel Maintainers
Panel Maintainers
: 134476 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2004-01-19 00:34 UTC by Christian Rose
Modified: 2005-08-15 01:39 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Christian Rose 2004-01-19 00:34:27 UTC
#: gnome-panel/panel-menu-bar.c:175
#, c-format
msgid "Quit from %s's desktop"

This type of genitive with an unknown %s is often *very* difficult to
translate, as each language has its own rules for how genitives are handled.

As an example, the rule in Swedish is that genitives are accomplished by
tacking an "s" (without an apostrophe) to the noun, although if the noun
ends in an s-like sound like s or z, the genitive s should simply be omitted.

Thus, the following examples would be correct:
"Quit from christian's desktop" => "Avsluta från christians skrivbord"
"Quit from daniel's desktop" => "Avsluta från daniels skrivbord"
"Quit from marcus's desktop" => "Avsluta från marcus skrivbord"
"Quit from anders's desktop" => "Avsluta från anders skrivbord"
"Quit from mats's desktop" => "Avsluta från mats skrivbord"

The following would NOT be correct:
"Avsluta från marcuss skrivbord"
"Avsluta från anderss skrivbord"
"Avsluta från matss skrivbord"

There seems to be no remotely trivial solution to analyze and accomplish
this in code. And a rewriting like:
"Quit from the desktop of %s" => "Avsluta från skrivbordet som tillhör %s"
seems more than a bit weird and clumsy in Swedish, and possibly also so
(even though to a lesser extent) in English.

Thus, my primary suggestion would be for the user name to be simply skipped
in the first place in this message.
See also the similar bugs bug 45360, bug 96394, and bug 125964.
Comment 1 Christian Neumair 2004-01-19 16:35:58 UTC
Simply translate it by "Avsluta från %.0s skrivbord".

regs,
 Chris
Comment 2 Christian Rose 2004-01-19 23:49:11 UTC
I'm fairly sure this is not only a problem in Swedish. Hence the bug
report.
Comment 3 alexander.winston 2004-02-20 03:56:27 UTC
*** Bug 134476 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 4 Danilo Segan 2004-02-20 06:02:54 UTC
These are problematic in similar way.

#: gnome-panel/menu.c:3232 gnome-panel/panel-menu-bar.c:206
#, c-format
msgid "Log Out %s"

#: gnome-panel/menu.c:3246
#, c-format
msgid ""
"Log out %s of this session to log in as a different user or to shut
down "
"your computer"
Comment 5 Marc O'Morain 2004-02-24 20:06:25 UTC
This is also gramatically correct in English. If the user's name ends
in s, the log out message should not have an s.

Current: "Quit from Jesus's desktop"
Should be: "Quit from Jesus' desktop"

It's the very problem that has been pointed out in Swedish by
Christian above..
Comment 6 Marc O'Morain 2004-02-24 20:07:35 UTC
gramatically *incorrect*
Bad typing monkey!
Comment 7 Christian Neumair 2004-02-24 20:50:17 UTC
Why do we have such strings at all? Is it really a good idea to abuse
the action menu to tell the user what his login name is? Same is valid
for the filechooser and various other locations. Today, I've written a
simple applet which can display the user's name or his home folder
location. It has got a simple one-key GConf backend. IMHO that
solution would be cleaner than scattering those "someone's Desktop"
strings around.

regs,
 Chris
Comment 8 Vincent Untz 2004-02-25 00:09:34 UTC
Christian: this was added after a bug has been opened by the Sun guys
about this.

All: sorry that this hasn't be dealt with before the string freeze. I
did not work a lot on GNOME lately...

Ok, so tell me what should be changed:

  msgid "Quit from %s's desktop"
  => change to "Quit from desktop"

  msgid "Log Out %s"
  => is this one a problem? What do you propose? "Log Out"?

  msgid ""
  "Log out %s of this session to log in as a different user or to
  shut down "
  "your computer"
  => is this one a problem? What do you propose? Btw, shouldn't it be
"Log %s out of..."?

Once we all agree on those three strings and if you think we should
change this before 2.6.0, I'll send a mail to gnome-i18n and r-t to
ask permission to change the freeze with the new ones. Else, it'll be
fixed as soon as we branch.
Comment 9 Danilo Segan 2004-02-25 17:52:58 UTC
Last two are already present in translations as "Log Out" (menu.c:111)
and "Log out of this session to log in as a different user or to shut
down the computer" (menu.c:114).

Basically, I have translated this so far to "Log Out '%s'", but this
still sucks, because usernames usually remind of words, and they need
to go through declinations.

The first one might remind of the message "Log out of GNOME"
(panel-action-button.c:266), so these three proposals would fix it
without breaking string freeze, but it would probably affect
documentation writers (btw, I think this probably sucks for
documentation writers as well: is it really easier for them to say
something like "Choose 'Actions' in Gnome menu, followed by 'Log Out
USERNAME', where USERNAME is your username"?).
Comment 10 Vincent Untz 2004-02-25 23:01:32 UTC
Danilo: thanks. Your solution is a good one and it's really better to
reuse the same strings (it eases the translation and improves the
consistency). I'll send a mail to the documentation people to get
their approval and commit the changes if they agree.

Thanks again for your help
Comment 11 alexander.winston 2004-02-26 03:32:57 UTC
Sorry to step on toes, but "Jesus's desktop" (it must be comforting to
some to know that he uses GNOME) is perfectly correct. See Section
7.17 of the Fifteen Edition of The Chicago Manual of Style for more
information.
Comment 12 Christian Rose 2004-02-26 07:40:47 UTC
"Jesus" isn't an uncommon name in hispanic countries.
Comment 13 Alexandre Hautequest 2004-02-26 10:33:55 UTC
I think the *literal* translation could be skipped into a form of
locale reader translation. If the literal translated string didn't
make much sense or has some divergences in your language, but you knew
how it shall be in your language, feel free to write it in the best
way, just keep the idea.
Comment 14 Vincent Untz 2004-02-28 12:05:42 UTC
Fixed in CVS without breaking the string freeze.
i18n people: could you join the discussion on bug #130663 so we can
find a good way to do this for GNOME 2.8.
Thanks