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Bug 128226 - Usability problem, menu item ordering should depend on panel position
Usability problem, menu item ordering should depend on panel position
Status: RESOLVED OBSOLETE
Product: gnome-panel
Classification: Other
Component: panel
2.4.x
Other Linux
: Normal enhancement
: ---
Assigned To: Panel Maintainers
Panel Maintainers
: 322891 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2003-11-30 13:29 UTC by Uno Engborg
Modified: 2020-11-07 12:13 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Uno Engborg 2003-11-30 13:29:36 UTC
The items in the "Program" and "Action" menues should have the same
ordering regardless if the panel is on the top, bottom, left or right side
of the screen.

E.g. if I place the panel on the top of the screen, the last menu item in
the  "Action" menu is "Log out" while it becomes the first if the panel is
moved to the bottom of the screen.

This means that menus can't be ordered with respect to their importance or
estimated frequence of use, as we never know where the user prefers to have
the panel, or for that matter where on the panel the menu applet is placed
(important if the panel is on one of the sides)
Comment 1 Vincent Untz 2003-11-30 16:06:48 UTC
Well, it might be a good idea. But it may be surprising to have a
visually different order too.

cc'ing usability for some wise input.
Comment 2 Calum Benson 2003-12-03 13:28:23 UTC
I have a vague recollection that Havoc tried something similar with
the window list menus, reversing the order of Close/Minimize/Maximize
etc. with respect to the order they appear on the window menu itself,
to take advantage of the fact that the window list is almost always
docked to the bottom of the screen.  If this is true, the fact that
they're now both in the same order again is probably the result of
lots of people screaming about how bad it was :)  

Cc'ing Havoc to see if I'm just hallucinating about this.
Comment 3 Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen 2004-11-21 01:43:15 UTC
[menu item ordering should depend on panel position...] -- "yes!"

Well I don't know the fate of this bug, but...

I really think that menu-item-ordering should depend on "where you click". My
gut fealing tells me that "Log Out" should be the last menu entry no matter
where the panel is positioned. There is a similar case for any menu item I get
used to clicking from the panel-menu. What I mean is: users get used to a
"default/mean cursor movement distance" for clicking their action of choice.

There is a mnemonic enhancement in selecting "My Action" as the n'th element in
the menu, whether it is in the top or bottom. This is because I (read: expect
people) to have an intuitive feeling of the menu-size after a few minutes of
using a new desktop, and I /they have a gut feeling to "scroll this far" for
doing "this".

Therefore I claim that the menu entries should be reversed in order - when
moving them from top to bottom, to maximize the panel-menu functionality.

I have been using the current menu layout for quite a while and have always
found it rather distracting. This probably stems from the fact that I change
distributions quite often (and thereby default desktop layout), but never the
less, this could well reflect the feeling of new users.

Conclusion: "Scroll this far to get this"-philosophy depends on having a mirror
reversed menu-layout for top/bottom-menus. "Scroll this far to get this" is how
people think after getting used to some gui-layout.

Comment 4 Vidar Braut Haarr 2004-11-21 12:17:01 UTC
I disagree.

Think of the desktop as a desktop; whether you put your shoppinglist on the top
or bottom of your desk, it's still ordered the same way it was/would be ordered
in any other place on your desktop.

I can't think straight today (FF1.0 release party yesterday ;), so I'm reverting
to the ol' causes-lots-of-discussion-about-MS-is-not-always-right:
I'm not sure how MacOSX does this (or if it's even possible), but MSWin does not
change the menu order.
Comment 5 Uno Engborg 2004-11-21 16:09:41 UTC
Most people don't move their panels around that often. They usually decide to
keep them at top, bottom,... Then they keep them in the chosen position. The
situation whare the user gets bewildered because the order change would be very
rare.

If we don't reorder the menus, we can't make design descisions like:
- Place the logout menu last as this will be the most seldom used choise
- Put the logout menu last to prevent people from logging out by mistake.
- Put the most frequently used first in the menu.

By not reordering the menus on relocation, we basically say that the order of
the menu items is of no significance. If that was the case, we could reverse the
order any day without much protests from the users. I don't think this is true.


Finally, just imaginge the support situation:

- User:  How do I logout???

- Support person: At one of the screen edges, probably the top, you have many
menu called "Actions". Do you find it?

- No,hmm,... Ah,there it is:-)

- Support person: Good. Where did you find it?

- User: Where?!???

- Support Person: Was it on the top, bottom or to one of the sides of the screen?

- User: It's on the top of the screen.

- Support person: Good. Now, select the last menu item in the action menu

- User(by now forgotten what menu he looked for): Action menu?
....


If the menus was reordered the conversation would be much shorter:

-  User: How do I logout???

- Support person: At one of the scrren edges, probably the top, you have many
menu called "Actions". Do you find it?

- No,hmm,... Ah,there it is:-)

- Support person: Good. Now, select the last menu item in that menu
....
Comment 6 Vincent Untz 2004-11-21 16:20:44 UTC
For me, the last item in a menu is always the item at the bottom, even if the
panel is at the bottom...
Comment 7 Uno Engborg 2004-11-21 23:30:25 UTC
Could it be that, there are cultural differences in what is percieved as the
last menu item.  Most people I ask considers the item requering the most mouse
movement to hit to be the last item.

Anyway, not reordering the menu, still makes impossible to order the menu with
respect to frequency of use etc. 
Comment 8 Vincent Untz 2005-01-13 11:56:57 UTC
Ok, I've thought a bit more about this. Isn't this valid for all the menus, and
not just the panel menus?
For example, if I right click at the bottom of my desktop, the menu appears on
the top of the pointer. Shouldn't the menu be reordered here too (in some
locales, and not in fr_FR :-))?
Comment 9 Vincent Untz 2005-12-27 14:57:43 UTC
*** Bug 322891 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 10 Uno Engborg 2007-07-21 15:02:49 UTC
(In reply to comment #8)
> Ok, I've thought a bit more about this. Isn't this valid for all the menus, and
> not just the panel menus?

Yes, you are right. It's just that panel menus are more likely to be opened on the top or the bottom of the screen.

So, yes, this should be applied to all menus. 
Comment 11 André Klapper 2020-11-07 12:13:56 UTC
bugzilla.gnome.org is being replaced by gitlab.gnome.org. We are closing all
old feature requests in Bugzilla which have not seen updates for many years.

If you still use gnome-panel and if you are still requesting this feature in a currently supported version of GNOME (currently that would be 3.38), then please feel free to report it at https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-panel/-/issues/

Thank you for reporting this issue and we are sorry it could not be implemented.