GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 746025
The legacy tray is hard to discover
Last modified: 2015-04-14 21:17:07 UTC
With the new legacy tray, it's quite hard to quickly check a status of a particular app (e.g. whether dropbox is currently syncing or not, whether there are some waiting messages in my favorite IM, etc). There are no keyboard shortcuts (that's bug 746022) and showing the tray involves navigating the mouse cursor into a very tiny area (which is quite difficult on dual displays) and clicking on it. Also, it's quite hard to even discover that legacy tray. Depending on your background color, that tiny gray rectangle might be almost invisible. I think it if you could show the legacy tray also in the overview mode, it would solve both issues. First, it would be very easy to check app's status - just tap Win, look, tap Win again. Second, by seeing the tray in the overview mode, you could much more easily discover that gray rectangle at the very same position in your standard desktop mode. What do you think? gnome-shell-3.15.91-1.fc22.x86_64
(In reply to Kamil Páral from comment #0) > ... There are no > keyboard shortcuts (that's bug 746022) Seems like a separate issue to me. > and showing the tray involves > navigating the mouse cursor into a very tiny area (which is quite difficult > on dual displays) and clicking on it. That's another separate issue - please file a bug. We could possibly use a pointer barrier in the corner. > Also, it's quite hard to even discover that legacy tray. Depending on your > background color, that tiny gray rectangle might be almost invisible. Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "hard to discover"? Do you mean initially finding out about it, or subsequently being able to notice the element. Is this something you have experienced personally? It isn't clear what you mean. > I think it if you could show the legacy tray also in the overview mode, it > would solve both issues. That's impossible to do without breaking the interaction with status icons (due to X11 limitations).
(In reply to Allan Day from comment #1) > > I think it if you could show the legacy tray also in the overview mode, it > > would solve both issues. > > That's impossible to do without breaking the interaction with status icons > (due to X11 limitations). Right. We can show the icon and forward clicks, but if an app wants to open a menu in response, it will fail. Given that almost all status icons behave this way, this is a serious limitation, and I don't see a better option than not showing them at all in the overview.
(In reply to Kamil Páral from comment #0) > Also, it's quite hard to even discover that legacy tray. Depending on your > background color, that tiny gray rectangle might be almost invisible. There's a line here between "gets in the way of my applications" and "it's hard to spot". I'm not saying we got it right of course, just mentioning that there's a balance to hit ... Given that we won't follow the suggestion of showing the legacy tray in the overview, I'm renaming appropriately.
(In reply to Allan Day from comment #1) > > and showing the tray involves > > navigating the mouse cursor into a very tiny area (which is quite difficult > > on dual displays) and clicking on it. > > That's another separate issue - please file a bug. We could possibly use a > pointer barrier in the corner. Reported as bug 746026. > > > Also, it's quite hard to even discover that legacy tray. Depending on your > > background color, that tiny gray rectangle might be almost invisible. > > Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "hard to discover"? Do you mean > initially finding out about it, or subsequently being able to notice the > element. Is this something you have experienced personally? It isn't clear > what you mean. I mean initially. Once I knew it's there, of course it's easy to find it (unless I have a wallpaper of a very similar color, which I don't, at least for the moment). Before I knew where to look for it, I spent like 10-15 minutes searching for it. I knew it should be somewhere around, but I was mainly looking for it in the overview mode. I also played around with running different apps, because I assumed it might be hidden unless I run certain "legacy" apps. In the end, I had to ask at bug 721596#c52. Drago helped me out. > > > I think it if you could show the legacy tray also in the overview mode, it > > would solve both issues. > > That's impossible to do without breaking the interaction with status icons > (due to X11 limitations). Understood. That's a pity. > There's a line here between "gets in the way of my applications" and "it's > hard to spot". I'm not saying we got it right of course, just mentioning that > there's a balance to hit ... I agree. I'm actually not fond even of that tiny gray rectangle, because it slightly overlaps the prompt in a maximized terminal. Nothing heartbreaking, but not 100% pretty. I don't have any better suggestions where to put it, though, so I don't complain :) When it comes to tray discoverability, I have an idea. If there was an animation when there's a new icon added to the tray, it would help a lot. So, if you start pidgin/transmission/something that adds a legacy tray icon, maybe you could just expand the tray, insert the icon (maybe with a slight animation, like fading in or wiggle) and collapse it again. It would be immediately clear where the tray icon is and how to find it. Just a thought. I'm well aware you don't want to spend too much time on supporting "legacy apps".
(In reply to Kamil Páral from comment #4) > When it comes to tray discoverability, I have an idea. If there was an > animation when there's a new icon added to the tray, it would help a lot. I think this would work - new icons should really only appear as the result of user interaction (starting an app, toggling an option, ... - though evolution *cough* *cough*), so sliding out the tray shouldn't usually get in the way. Allan?
(In reply to Florian Müllner from comment #5) ... > > When it comes to tray discoverability, I have an idea. If there was an > > animation when there's a new icon added to the tray, it would help a lot. ... > Allan? I think it would very much depend on the exact animation used. I'm a bit wary of this becoming too distracting. One change I was going to suggest - when the tray is first displayed, have it in expanded mode, rather than being retracted. Perhaps, as an alternative to the animation, this could be elaborated to a more general behaviour - automatically expanding the tray whenever an icon is added.
(In reply to Allan Day from comment #6) > One change I was going to suggest - when the tray is first displayed, have > it in expanded mode, rather than being retracted. Perhaps, as an alternative > to the animation, this could be elaborated to a more general behaviour - > automatically expanding the tray whenever an icon is added. Isn't this just the suggested animation (sliding out the tray if hidden) minus the part where it hides again after a small timeout? I wouldn't mind doing only the expansion part (easier!), but I fail to see how it is less intrusive/distracting ... On the other hand, assuming that the icon is shown as the result of a user action, I guess there's a fair chance that the user does want to interact with it.
If it expands but not hides itself automatically, I'm a bit afraid I'll need to manually hide the tray after each login. Because I have several "legacy" apps started automatically on each login (dropbox, redshift, gajim, hexchat, goldendict) and the expanded tray would block an important portion of my apps (command prompt in a maximized terminal, target URL hint in maximized firefox, etc). Could it default to auto-expand initially, and then remember the last position it was in when logging out/powering off? That would help with discoverability, and it could also please both sides - those who want to have it hidden by default, and those who want to have it expanded all the time. It would simply remember your choice.
(In reply to Florian Müllner from comment #2) > (In reply to Allan Day from comment #1) > > > I think it if you could show the legacy tray also in the overview mode, it > > > would solve both issues. > > > > That's impossible to do without breaking the interaction with status icons > > (due to X11 limitations). > > Right. We can show the icon and forward clicks, but if an app wants to open > a menu in response, it will fail. Given that almost all status icons behave > this way, this is a serious limitation, and I don't see a better option than > not showing them at all in the overview. It currently works in 3.14 by closing the tray, exiting the overview and showing the menu. Sure, it is not ideal but it works (it is discoverable and provides the needed interaction).
I just want to add a pair of appointems about that. I also think that is difficult to find the new tray, at least initially. But if you add a initial "joyride" animation or something that allows you to know where is the tray, could be solve the issue. Maybe, this might fit at the ending of the Gnome initial setup. On the other hand, do you think that, at least, with Gnome Tweak would be possible to change the position of the tray? I think that many people, like me, might find it more comfortable if it is on the right corner instead the left one. Thanks.
(In reply to Miguel Vaello Martínez from comment #10) > Maybe, this might fit at > the ending of the Gnome initial setup. I do think an animation could work, but not at the end of initial setup - we would indicate to the user that there is something, but as no apps with status icons are running at that point, it will be hidden at the end of the animation and she can't get back to it (unless she starts an app that uses the tray, but that's not obvious at all).
Another datapoint, after upgrading to GNOME 3.16, I also did not find the legacy tray even though I wondered where it was gone and looked briefly for it. It's only a few hours later that I noticed something was hiding the bottom left part of my vim terminals, and that I found it.
Here's my suggestion, we should merge the TopIcons extensions to gnome-shell. It can be found here: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/495/topicons/ Reasons are: - With the new notifications system, it's time to get entirely rid of bottom trays. - More discoverable. I fail to understand how a newbie is supposed to guess that tray icons are hidden here! Even more advanced users scratched their heads for a while before finding it. "hidden" is the word because that's exactly what this tray achieves. - Tray icons are supposed to be always visible, or at least most of the time. When I use Hexchat or Skype, the blinking icon tells me there's something to read if I missed some notification. - Less moves/clicks. Right now we have to throw the mouse and then select the icon that was hidden moments before. Having them directly in the top bar is more convenient. - Not covering up content. It's currently not enough to hide important things but it's big enough to be annoying. - There's a lot of free space in the top bar, especially with big screens. This extension already works really well for me and for a lot of other users. It looks like a sane default to me. However, if directly showing the icons in the top bar is considered too distractive, it would be nice to have a button in the top bar that reveals (expands) the icons when clicked. Please consider removing that bottom tray.
(In reply to Kamil Páral from comment #8) ... > Could it default to auto-expand initially, and then remember the last > position it was in when logging out/powering off? ... Sounds like a reasonable solution to me.
(In reply to Clément Guérin from comment #13) > Here's my suggestion, we should merge the TopIcons extensions to > gnome-shell. It can be found here: > https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/495/topicons/ Please file a separate bug for this.
(In reply to Allan Day from comment #15) > Please file a separate bug for this. Here you go: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=747034
Created attachment 301562 [details] [review] legacyTray: Temporarily reveal tray when icons are added There is a balance to hit between discoverability and getting out of the way, and the legacy tray currently fails in both regards. To address the first issue, temporarily reveal the tray when a new icon is added.
Review of attachment 301562 [details] [review]: Makes sense to me. Code looks good. (Fine to push with design ack).
Attachment 301562 [details] pushed as 594a227 - legacyTray: Temporarily reveal tray when icons are added