<aday> Jasper, ok, i think i have something for you
<aday> i'm afraid it's a little different from the last iteration
<aday> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5031519/system-settings/end-session-dialogs.png
<aday> with this you would only get one confirm dialog
<aday> however, it would require that we add suspend to the menu
<aday> let me know what you think
<mclasen> thanks for adding the restart & install variant there, aday
<mclasen> Jasper, we'll need a simple api to trigger that from gnome-software
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<mclasen> aday: can we fit suspend in the menu ? with the rotation lock, there's already 4 buttons in there
<aday> mclasen, i think we'll have to do it with alt, like now
<aday> can't think of a better way
<mclasen> a moon in a circle might look nice
<aday> i was thinking of a pause icon
<aday> since we call it suspend, not sleep
<mclasen> will it be clear that it refers to your computer, not your music ?
* jimmac doesn't like the moon metaphor at all
<aday> mclasen, fair question
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<jimmac> behaving like alt, that's not a concern
<jimmac> s/like/using/
<aday> what i do know is that suspend doesn't work in the dialog
<mclasen> true, with alt it'll  be clear that its a 'variant' of power off
<aday> gcampax, you might be interested in this too ^
<gcampax> aday, looks a lot like what we have right now :)
<aday> gcampax, except the inhibitors are integrated into the confirm dialog
<gcampax> aday, it's the same now, except for other logged user, that were hacked very quickly last cycle
<gcampax> apps are already shown in the same dialog
<aday> oh nice
<aday> that's good
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<Jasper> aday, how do you suspend?
<Jasper> mclasen, that should be a gnome-session API TBH
<Jasper> mclasen, if we add a gnome-session API to say "restart and install updates", I'll add the dialog content. Shouldn't be too hard.
<mclasen> but then you still need a gnome-shell api for gnome-session to call ?
* mclasen forgets how that works between gnome-session and gnome-shell
<aday> Jasper, we'd need it in the menu :/ (on alt modifier like now)
<Jasper> mclasen, we already have it. When gnome-session wants to show the dialog, it passes an enum through telling us which dialog content we want
<Jasper> aday, OK. Make a design and I'll add it back.
<mclasen> oh right, need to add a new enum value
<mclasen> halfline_laptop: can you do that for me ?
<Jasper> aday, another thing I added at the last minute was to glow the power off icon when you had offline updates to restart. Do we still want this?
<mclasen> Jasper: who would initiate the offline update in the end, gnome-shell or gnome-session or gnome-software ?
<Jasper> mclasen, either gnome-software or gnome-session.
<halfline_laptop> mclasen: what would you like me to do?
* halfline_laptop reads scrollback
<aday> Jasper, the design would be to replace the power off icon with media-playback-pause-symbolic
<aday> when you hold down alt
<Jasper> aday, OK.
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<mclasen> halfline_laptop: make it possible to trigger a 'restart & install' dialog by calling into gnome-session
<gcampax> aday, just saying, but we didn't have good feedback from using alt in the past (one way or the other)
<aday> gcampax, yeah i know. i really can't come up with anything any better though
<aday> if you expose it in the menu things get bloated and overwhelming
<gcampax> aday, yeah, I wasn't complaining
<Jasper> aday, do we want the icon to glow for updates btw?
<Jasper> aday, or do we want to move the responsibility of updates to gnome-session?
<aday> Jasper, there's no triggering updates from the menu with this design
<Jasper> aday, OK
<halfline_laptop> mclasen: so to be clear, you want me to add a new D-Bus api along side Shutdown and Reboot called, e.g., InstallUpdates that then calls into gnome-shell's EndSessionDialog using a new GSM_SHELL_END_SESSION_DIALOG_TYPE_INSTALL_UPDATES enum value
<mclasen> I guess thats what Jasper wants, yes
<halfline_laptop> and then on confirmation gnome-session should run /usr/libexec/pk-trigger-offline-update
<mclasen> would that be right ?
<aday> eee, exciting to see this stuff coming together
<aday> sane updates here we come :)
<halfline_laptop> mclasen: hmm
<halfline_laptop> on the surface it seems okay, because it gives us additional knowledge about why we're rebooting in the reboot dialog
<halfline_laptop> so we can custom taylor the message
<halfline_laptop> on the other hand
<mclasen> thats the main point
<halfline_laptop> there are ways to trigger offline updates besides the menu item
<halfline_laptop> and when it's triggered in that way, reboot is going to start installing updates
<halfline_laptop> regardless of whether we say so in the dialog.
<mclasen> sure, but having the shell throw up a system modal just because some file appeared in / would seem wrong, no ?
<halfline_laptop> well the modal shouldn't ever be thrown up because the file appeared
<halfline_laptop> but i do think the content of the dialog should depend on whether or not the file is there
<mclasen> well, thats how the shell currently learns about available offline updates (and shows the menu item)
<mclasen> oh
<mclasen> so you're saying we just use the Reboot method, and gnome-session will notice the file and adjust the dialog
<mclasen> that night be nice
<halfline_laptop> yea
<halfline_laptop> now the question is, who should be calling /usr/libexec/pk-trigger-offline-update
<halfline_laptop> do we keep that gnome-shell?
<mclasen> that is the thing that puts the symlink in place, right ?
<halfline_laptop> right
<mclasen> I guess if we go what you said, we have to call it before calling Reboot
<mclasen> I guess the problem then is that we have to undo it if the user cancels
<halfline_laptop> yea
<halfline_laptop> and there's no pk-untrigger-offline-updates is there?
<mclasen> we can certainly add one
<mclasen> but it is just removing a symlink, I think
<halfline_laptop>  maybe we should be calling a new d-bus API in gnome-settings-daemon's update plugin and move all the triggering stuff there
<halfline_laptop> even if we do that though
<halfline_laptop> i guess we'd still have to call pk-trigger-offline-updates or somehting like it from there
<halfline_laptop> so the indirection doesn't buy us much
<halfline_laptop> the other thing is i think hughsie recently made pkcon have a trigger-offline-updates command ?
<mclasen> yeah
<mclasen> but I don't think you have to worry about how we trigger it - just make gnome-session adjust the dialog if it finds the symlink
<mclasen> maybe you want some api to detect it instead of poking at the filesystem directly ?
<aday> jimmac, andreasn, i don't think i can fix the width of those buttons without min-width :(
<halfline_laptop> mclasen: yea that might be nice
<aday> you end up with too wide in one place or too narrow in others
<jimmac> aday: s/new/create new/
* jimmac runs
<mclasen> actually, looking around, there is /usr/libexec/pk-clear-offline-update
<halfline_laptop> sweet
<halfline_laptop> on other thing to think about, is what to do if the dialog is up and the file changes
<aday> jimmac, even better - s/New/    New    /
<aday> that's the way the pros do it
<jimmac> haha
<mclasen> halfline_laptop: I'd ignore that possibility
<halfline_laptop> i guess the EndSessionDialog can be updated just by calling open on it again with new parameters
<halfline_laptop> so it sounds like the plan then is "add a new enum type to gnome-session to have a Install Updates reboot dialog, change gnome-shell to use that new dialog, and have gnome-session request that dialog when it sees the file"
<halfline_laptop> we can eitehr keep gnome-shell calling pk-trigger-offline-updates itself, or move that to the g-s-d updates plugin
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<mclasen> I think there's still some confusion about who and when to call pk-trigger-offline-updates
<halfline_laptop> right
<halfline_laptop> also
<mclasen> that needs to be called early, because it is what puts the symlink in place that gnome-session will look for
<mclasen> once it has been called, no further triggering is needed - just reboot
<halfline_laptop> the stated goal of these changes was so that we can change the dialog message
<halfline_laptop> but we can do today even if we kept all the logic in gnome-shell
<mclasen> you may be right
<halfline_laptop> so the only advantage of moving this to gnome-session / gnome-settings-daemon is because it's sort of "backend work"
<halfline_laptop> and gnome-shell is the frontend not the backend
<mclasen> but isn't gnome-session currently providing the content of the dialog ?
<halfline_laptop> no
<mclasen> or does all that live in gnome-shell ?
<halfline_laptop> yes
<halfline_laptop> gnome-session just passes the enum
<mclasen> in that case, it might be most natural to just have gnome-shell look for the file
<halfline_laptop> it's certainly less plumbing to do it that way
<halfline_laptop> and more plumbing means less reliability
<halfline_laptop> but moving these things to g-s and g-s-d is conceptually cleaner
<halfline_laptop> okay so now that we've talked it through, i'd be interested to here Jasper's take
<halfline_laptop> *hear
<mclasen> last question: how does gnome-software learn if the reboot was canceled - just if the gnome-session dbus call returns ?
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<mclasen> because we need to clear the offline update in that case
<halfline_laptop> well if gnome-shell is the one telling g-s-d to  trigger the update, it should be the one to clear the update on cancellation
<mclasen> again, the update has been triggered early
<halfline_laptop> if gnome-session is the one telling g-s-d to trigger the update, it should be the one to clear the update on cancellation
<mclasen> nobody needs to do any triggering once the dialog is up
<mclasen> the dialog is just about 'reboot or not' 
<halfline_laptop> i don't dispute that
<halfline_laptop> but somebody has to do it
<mclasen> right
<halfline_laptop> the person who does it needs to be the one to clear it
<mclasen> my assumption is that gnome-software will be the one
<mclasen> seems to me the least hassle
<mclasen> why add g-s-d to the mix ?
<halfline_laptop> well wait, there's a menu item "Install Updates & Restart" right ?
<aday> halfline_laptop, not in the new menu
<halfline_laptop> ohhh
<mclasen> no
<mclasen> thats gone
<halfline_laptop> so the only way to install updates going forward will be by the gnome-software app?
<mclasen> gnome-software is the place you go to for updates
<aday> it's something we might want to look at in the future, but i discussed it with jimmac and i think it's ok not to have it for now
<halfline_laptop> interesting
<aday> we need to get the notification right for this to work
<halfline_laptop> so it's the thing that needs to call Reboot()
<halfline_laptop> but Reboot() doesn't have a return value
<halfline_laptop> only gnome-shell and gnome-session know when the reboot dialog is cancelled
<mclasen> it would be nice if gnome-session could pass that back to the caller
<mclasen> by returning
<halfline_laptop> yea
<halfline_laptop> if it's the thing that's going to pk-clear-offline-updates
<halfline_laptop> then it needs to be informed when the dialog is cancelled
<halfline_laptop> somehow
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<halfline_laptop> so that's going to be moderately challenging to fix, just because of how gnome-session is glopped together
<halfline_laptop> but should be doable
<mclasen> I'm sure you can do it :-)
<halfline_laptop> do we care about maintaining api compat ?
<halfline_laptop> i think we already broke compat once before
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<halfline_laptop> so probably not
<mclasen> you want to check the known callers, I guess 
<mclasen> gnome-shell, anybody else ?
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<halfline_laptop> gnome-session-quit calls logout but not reboot
<halfline_laptop> though it might be nice to fix logout too for consistency
<halfline_laptop> i think gnome-control-center might call logout too when switching language ?
<halfline_laptop> alright i'll look into this more on monday, i've got a lot of stuff to do today
<mclasen> true
<mclasen> ok, thanks
<mclasen> having a plan is already great progress