GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 659309
killing mode switch relayout
Last modified: 2011-11-24 21:26:58 UTC
hello everyone, I'd like to present you a mock-up for 3.3 with the following key factors: * button into the dash to show all the apps (as in first Jackub's mockup). - it seems the most intuitive place to go for apps - Windows/Application switcher has been removed - while in Applications overview, a click on it will switch into Windows overview - keep no animations = no kinky slowdowns.. * apps are displayed __alphabetically__ (no change here). - I know exactly that Firefox will be in __that__ zone of the screen, __right__ between E(volution) and G(edit): it's fixed. - apps shouldn't be ordered by usage: we use the dash for most used apps * scrollbar will remain (no change here too). a pager is not that good, because: - pager dots are not a consistent desing solution with the rest of the environment (apps, but just think about search results in the shell) - it's __not__ easy to click on pager dots with a mouse, even worst with a touchpad (99% of the cases). - if apps are not displayed alphabetically, __how__ can I find an app in the other pages? better to stick with categories in that case.. * categories are gone. But I know that categories are very useful to newcomers. - Apps __could__ be shown under categories in the same style as search results are shown in the shell: __under__ category titles ("Applications / Settings / Recent Documents / .." should become "Accessories / Audio and Video / Internet / ..") * workspaces pager is __always__ shown. - Much more immediate way to figure out how to start an app in another workspace - It will not break visual when dragging an app icon into it. - Workspaces are always shown if more than 2, so the passage from windows overview to application overview is smooth. well, that's it, hope you like it. alex
I don't see a mockup. Alex - can you try reattaching it?
Created attachment 196794 [details] app overview relayout
Thanks Alex, that's a nice mockup. The main points I can see here are: 1. Jakub's mode switch kill plan is good 2. Pager is bad 3. Show the workspace switcher in the app view Point 1 doesn't need a bug, and point 2 is covered by bug 649998. I'm not sure about 3. It seems odd to be mixing workspaces and windows with the app view, although the consistency it would introduce has a certain appeal...
pretty neat, isn't it? the thing I like the most is that really little changes to the user, just rearranged in a cleaner manner. about point 3: - if now I drag'n'drop an app icon from apps overview (to launch it into an other workspace, or simply to add it to the dash!), suddenly the interface brakes into a different one I don't expect, it's really a bad behaviour, a design bug. - if now I want to start an app in another workspace and I'm not used to gnome3 (well, I will!), it's not immediate, intuitive, (made of)easy, to find out how to do it. - we know that categories use is ambiguous. Workspaces pager will take the place of categories, it has already its space. After it will be really easy to the eye and the hand to drag'n'drop an app. so, as you can see, fixing this bug will result in a lot of interface consistency, stability to the user. I really would like to provide a nice mockup with categories, but my gimp skills don't allow me to achieve such a result ;) one thing more I would like to investigate: * when the Activities overview is started and no apps are running in the current workspace, the whole app overview is displayed. - this could be a pleasure to see after logging in and entering Activities - it saves 1 click, really good specially if I switch to a blank workspace in advance cheers a.
Created attachment 196799 [details] app overview relayout with categories, without workspace pager
Comment on attachment 196799 [details] app overview relayout with categories, without workspace pager oops: scrollbar is missing
I'm not a fan of the categories, and I'm pretty sure that's the view of the other designers. People can never figure out which category each app will be in.
Created attachment 196800 [details] application overview with categories and workspaces
Created attachment 196801 [details] application overview relayout without workspaces in this mockup there is room for 10 more icons on the right this represent also the less controversial choice (less changes) and with this, that's all. :)
so, if I can resume my point of view: things to change: 1- kill mode switch, add the button into dash 2- kill categories things to keep: 1- keep scrollbars, do not deploy a pager 2- keep the alphabetical order, do not change it into by usage. things to experiment: 1- workspace pager always visible in app overview 2- show automatically app overview if no windows are exposed in activities now that's up to you. I go for an icecream, cheers alex
(In reply to comment #4) > pretty neat, isn't it? > the thing I like the most is that really little changes to the user, just > rearranged in a cleaner manner. > > about point 3: > - if now I drag'n'drop an app icon from apps overview (to launch it into an > other workspace, or simply to add it to the dash!), suddenly the interface > brakes into a different one I don't expect, it's really a bad behaviour, a > design bug. I'm going to say "yes" to this. It always felt awkward -- I've accidentally launched an app a few times because I can't *cancel* the drag. Something a bit better might be sliding the workspace thumbnails in from the right, given that the switcher being there for the app view all the time is useless. > - if now I want to start an app in another workspace and I'm not used to gnome3 > (well, I will!), it's not immediate, intuitive, (made of)easy, to find out how > to do it. > - we know that categories use is ambiguous. Workspaces pager will take the > place of categories, it has already its space. After it will be really easy to > the eye and the hand to drag'n'drop an app. > > so, as you can see, fixing this bug will result in a lot of interface > consistency, stability to the user. > > I really would like to provide a nice mockup with categories, but my gimp > skills don't allow me to achieve such a result ;) > > one thing more I would like to investigate: > * when the Activities overview is started and no apps are running in the > current workspace, the whole app overview is displayed. > - this could be a pleasure to see after logging in and entering Activities > - it saves 1 click, really good specially if I switch to a blank workspace in > advance > > cheers > a.
(In reply to comment #11) > (In reply to comment #4) > > pretty neat, isn't it? > > the thing I like the most is that really little changes to the user, just > > rearranged in a cleaner manner. > > > > about point 3: > > - if now I drag'n'drop an app icon from apps overview (to launch it into an > > other workspace, or simply to add it to the dash!), suddenly the interface > > brakes into a different one I don't expect, it's really a bad behaviour, a > > design bug. > > I'm going to say "yes" to this. It always felt awkward -- I've accidentally > launched an app a few times because I can't *cancel* the drag. I agree that this is a bug. Don't agree with the solution. :)
(In reply to comment #12) > (In reply to comment #11) > > (In reply to comment #4) > > > pretty neat, isn't it? > > > the thing I like the most is that really little changes to the user, just > > > rearranged in a cleaner manner. > > > > > > about point 3: > > > - if now I drag'n'drop an app icon from apps overview (to launch it into an > > > other workspace, or simply to add it to the dash!), suddenly the interface > > > brakes into a different one I don't expect, it's really a bad behaviour, a > > > design bug. > > > > I'm going to say "yes" to this. It always felt awkward -- I've accidentally > > launched an app a few times because I can't *cancel* the drag. > > I agree that this is a bug. Don't agree with the solution. :) You can cancel the drag just fine using "Esc" ... (OK not that obvious but still).
there is big advantage in always showing workspace pager into application overview, specially for touchscreens, which don't have "Esc" button: you don't need to drag'n'drop an app icon into a different workspace, you first select the workspace and then click on the app icon. if you drag'n'drop an app icon from apps overview (to launch it into an other workspace, or simply to add it to the dash!) and the interface didn't suddenly brake, that's because it stays as it is, solid and coherent. But to achieve this you need to show workspace pager on application overview. It won't change actual space order, it will take the place of categories, so it will be really easy to the eye and the hand to drag'n'drop app X into workspace Y. It can't be half hidden like into windows overview, its expansion would push left the last column of apps icons, thus changing their order and it would require a bloated animation. More, if you want to start an app in another workspace and you are not used to gnome3, now it becomes immediate, intuitive, (made of)easy, to find out how to do it, and that's pretty important to people not familiar with gnome3, gnome, linux, computers..
(In reply to comment #13) > (In reply to comment #12) > > (In reply to comment #11) > > > (In reply to comment #4) ... > > > I've accidentally > > > launched an app a few times because I can't *cancel* the drag. > > > > I agree that this is a bug. Don't agree with the solution. :) > > You can cancel the drag just fine using "Esc" ... (OK not that obvious but > still). No, I didn't discover that. We could just kill drag to launch; I doubt Jon or Jimmac would favour that though. ;)
(In reply to comment #15) > (In reply to comment #13) > > (In reply to comment #12) > > > (In reply to comment #11) > > > > (In reply to comment #4) > ... > > > > I've accidentally > > > > launched an app a few times because I can't *cancel* the drag. > > > > > > I agree that this is a bug. Don't agree with the solution. :) > > > > You can cancel the drag just fine using "Esc" ... (OK not that obvious but > > still). > > No, I didn't discover that. > > We could just kill drag to launch; I doubt Jon or Jimmac would favour that > though. ;) I won't either ;)
(In reply to comment #15) > (In reply to comment #13) > > (In reply to comment #12) > > > (In reply to comment #11) > > > > (In reply to comment #4) > ... > > > > I've accidentally > > > > launched an app a few times because I can't *cancel* the drag. > > > > > > I agree that this is a bug. Don't agree with the solution. :) > > > > You can cancel the drag just fine using "Esc" ... (OK not that obvious but > > still). > > No, I didn't discover that. > > We could just kill drag to launch; I doubt Jon or Jimmac would favour that > though. ;) You mean drag to launch from dash too, I guess (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636122). There is still the problem that has been raised here : https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636122#c7 There are two possibilities for this : - Long press to stay in the overview (I'm not sure it's discoverable, easy or good considering accessibility). - Leave it that way, encouraging the user not to launch several apps at a time. In favor of that, there is the fact that usually, if users open several apps, it's only in order to have them launched and get back to them later. Still, it might be usefull to launch two apps in the same time if you want to dnd between them, or compare informations. I'm not sure that use case need really much more than 2 apps launched and going two times in the overview might not be a big problem.
any news from the (s)hell land? :> wanted to add something, another +1 for killing the mode switch: the "wikipedia" and "Google" buttons at the bottom of search overview can be moved on the top, right on the left of search box. (even if a search engine switcher à la Firefox is my favourite solution.. uhm.. even if making an internet search into the shell sounds odd to me.. actually I've never ever used those shell buttons.. maybe it's just me.) cheers
This cannot be emphasized enough, so I will use lots of asterisks. **** Do not kill categories! **** I have 406 items in my applications list (just counted them). That is 9 pages of scrolling down with gnome-shell-3.2 on a 1600x1200 screen. Finding anything in the middle of that list is impossible, particularly when an item is near the end of it. Since the search function is often unusably laggy, categories are the primary way for me to launch applications. You might think that killing categories is reasonable when you look at a brand-new install or at a basic corporate desktop that has perhaps 10 or 20 applications in the list. But for a more typical Linux desktop user who may have hundreds of application entries, there absolutely *must* be a way of splitting up that list into manageable sections.
(In reply to comment #19) > Since the search function is often unusably laggy, categories are the primary > way for me to launch applications. Err.. we don't base UI design on bugs. If search is laggy that's a bug that has to be fixed period. This has nothing to do with whether we want categories or not.
(In reply to comment #20) > Err.. we don't base UI design on bugs. If search is laggy that's a bug that has > to be fixed period. This has nothing to do with whether we want categories or > not. Even if you handwave away performance problems which have been present in gnome shell's search since day 1, you still need to base UI design on fundamental principles such as "an unorganized flat list that is expected to grow to >50 items is the worst possible way of presenting information to the user".
(In reply to comment #21) > (In reply to comment #20) > > Err.. we don't base UI design on bugs. If search is laggy that's a bug that has > > to be fixed period. This has nothing to do with whether we want categories or > > not. > > Even if you handwave away performance problems which have been present in gnome > shell's search since day 1, [...] I didn't comment on the rest. I am just saying that design should and is not based on bugs. If something is broken it should be tracked down and fixed, not worked around in the UI.
Hi josephk, I like your Ideas, especially your category preview C8! For me there is still on disadvantage: If you have to pick an App from a Bottom categorie, you have to scroll. What about giving the categories a "more" button? Do you see a chance to display all Categories at once? ------- For me, the best place for the toggle button is _on_top_ of the quick luncher. ------- +1 for moving the google and wikipedia button to the top
dear Daniel, - my favourite soultion is mockup in C8 too. it makes much sense to me. - I agree that toggle button should be at the top of launcher. - I think that google and wiki buttons should be just removed.. what about other search engines for instance? let's use the web browser instead.. - categories? I think it's good as it is in the mockup: scrolling few lines is lighting fast. I feel applications overview is not an improvement over gnome2. Activities>Applications>categories>app: many clicks on distant screen areas ask gnome designers
Thanks for the bug report alex. There are some interesting ideas here and it's great to have someone with a passion for design getting involved. I think it's best to close this bug, since it covers quite a few different issues and hasn't developed a clear solution. If you (or anyone else who is subscribed) wants to report well-defined individual issues (such as the drag and drop problem), please do so. I'm sure there will be updates regarding the new mode switch design, which I know is planned for implementation this cycle. I would recommend that you subscribe to Jimmac's blog or Planet GNOME, if you haven't already. :)