After an evaluation, GNOME has moved from Bugzilla to GitLab. Learn more about GitLab.
No new issues can be reported in GNOME Bugzilla anymore.
To report an issue in a GNOME project, go to GNOME GitLab.
Do not go to GNOME Gitlab for: Bluefish, Doxygen, GnuCash, GStreamer, java-gnome, LDTP, NetworkManager, Tomboy.
Bug 92193 - PNG Save should offer to convert
PNG Save should offer to convert
Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX
Product: GIMP
Classification: Other
Component: User Interface
1.x
Other Linux
: Normal normal
: ---
Assigned To: GIMP Bugs
GIMP Bugs
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
 
Reported: 2002-08-31 17:41 UTC by Akkana Peck
Modified: 2004-03-08 09:58 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Akkana Peck 2002-08-31 17:41:24 UTC
The PNG save screen should give the option to convert to indexed, or
perhaps even make it the default to encourage using PNG as a GIF replacement.

Background: a couple of days ago on the GUG list: someone said "I'd like to
use PNG instead of GIF for my web site, but every time I save a PNG it comes
out huge so I end up using GIF instead."

In the ensuring discussion we learned that PNG by default isn't indexed: if
you want to make a small GIF-replacing indexed PNG, you have to convert it
first using Image->Mode->Indexed before doing Save As.  I hadn't known that
either, and am now happily using PNG for web images where I couldn't
before.  It would be great if this was more discoverable.

Would anyone be interested if I made a patch for this?  I guess it would
have to be for 1.3 because 1.2's UI is frozen, right?
Comment 1 Sven Neumann 2002-09-02 08:57:20 UTC
Right, 1.2 is UI-frozen but I don't think we want this in 1.3 neither.
The GIMP is not about teaching users how to do image manipulation.
Adding such an option would only clutter the UI. It's possible to save
indexed PNGs, it's not hidden and thus I don't see any reason for
changes. I propose to close this report as WONTFIX.
Comment 2 Raphaël Quinet 2002-09-02 09:33:31 UTC
Agreed.  WONTFIX.

However, we could think about a much more ambitious plan to guide
users who want to save images for the web: there could be some
wizards with multiple previews comparing different formats and
different quality settings.  If someone can come up with a good
and coherent proposal for that, then it should be submitted in a
new report (and it should not simply be a copy of some other
commercial program).  But I doubt that such a complex thing would
be part of 1.3 anyway.  Maybe 2.x.
Comment 3 Dave Neary 2002-09-02 10:10:56 UTC
How about just adding a toggle box (a la PSP) with "Save for web"
which would index the image with a 256 colour palette & set the
compression level to 9?Simple, easy to implement, and it's copying
something already in existence.
Comment 4 Raphaël Quinet 2002-09-02 11:57:21 UTC
Doing this correctly would take much more than a simple checkbox,
that's why I have suggested that whoever has a good and coherent
proposal should create a new bug report containing all the details.

For the PNG format, the indexed mode is not always the best solution,
especially if the user knows what he is doing.  Instead of choosing
settings for the user and hiding them behind a single button, it
would be much better if the user would be guided through the settings
and be told the pros and cons of each format.  And if the option is
called "save for the web", then it should also mention the browser
bugs to the user.  For example, the PNG background chunk should never
be saved if the web site wants to support Netscape 4.x (otherwise all
black pixels in the image become white).  Also, it should mention that
many browsers do not support the PNG transparency correctly and guide
the user through several possible workarounds.  And in all cases,
there should be some previews available because the main problem is
usually to choose a correct size/quality ratio.  So even if the PNG
image is converted to indexed mode, there should be a slider or a
dialog box allowing the user to modify the size of the color palette
and to see how this affects the image.

If you want a quick and dirty solution for 1.3.x, then maybe we could
add a warning message that is displayed at the bottom of the PNG save
dialog, saying something like: "Warning: you are saving a full-color
PNG image.  You could get a smaller file size by converting the image
to indexed mode first."  This would be a bit like the optional warning
that is displayed at the bottom of the indexed conversion dialog when
the image has an alpha channel.  I prefer to tell the user what can be
done (and how) instead of adding a button that does some magic
(sometimes good, sometimes bad) without giving the opportunity to
customize how it is done.
Comment 5 Branko Collin 2003-08-11 20:14:40 UTC
Has Raphael's enhancement request been awarded it's own bug report? If
so, could that be linked from here?
Comment 6 Raphaël Quinet 2004-03-08 09:58:02 UTC
For cross-references: the "save for web" feature is described in bug
#98017.  Alan Horkan attached some interesting screenshots showing how
this feature is implemented in other programs.