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Bug 87330 - [ui-review] Nautilus context menu ordering
[ui-review] Nautilus context menu ordering
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: nautilus
Classification: Core
Component: File and Folder Operations
0.x.x [obsolete]
Other All
: Normal normal
: ---
Assigned To: Nautilus Maintainers
Nautilus Maintainers
: 81217 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks: 82707
 
 
Reported: 2002-07-04 13:22 UTC by Calum Benson
Modified: 2004-12-22 21:47 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---



Description Calum Benson 2002-07-04 13:22:56 UTC
This was raised in the UI review but originally scheduled for the 'second
round' of UI changes, whenever that might be... but Dave reckons that since
it's only a matter of hacking some XML files it should go in now. 
Obviously I'm biased so I agree, but up to Luis to triage I guess... 

Suggest following order for files (note addition of mnemonics):

_Open
Open _With >
_Scripts >
--
Cu_t
_Copy
_Paste  (present for directories only)
--
_Duplicate
_Make Link
Re_name
--
Move to _Trash 
--
Remo_ve Custom Icon
Stretch _Icon
Rest_ore Icon's Original Size
--
P_roperties
 

See
http://kaunas.alna.lt/~menesis/images/nautilus-context-menu-proposal.png

 
Suggested desktop menu -

New _Window
_New Folder
New _Launcher
New _Terminal
--
_Scripts >
--
_Arrange Icons >
-- 
Cu_t
_Copy
_Paste
--
_Disks > 
--
_Use Default Background
C_hange Desktop Background


Where 'Arrange Icons >' is the same as View->Arrange Items in main Nautilus
window. See
http://kaunas.alna.lt/~menesis/images/nautilus-desktop-background-menu.png


Also suggest possible inclusion of View->Refresh' on desktop background
menu.

Context menu for desktop background and file manager window background
should be similar.
Comment 1 Dave Camp 2002-07-05 18:37:55 UTC
I'm putting in these changes with the main window string changes, but
I'm going to leave Clean Up By Name instead of Arrange Items, because
none of the ordering options apply to the destkop (it is always in
manual mode). 
Comment 2 Luis Villa 2002-07-09 04:43:20 UTC
Adding jfleck since this needs to be documented.
Comment 3 John Fleck 2002-07-13 20:37:51 UTC
adding the ubiquitous Eugene to the cc list.
Comment 4 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2002-07-19 14:45:21 UTC
*** Bug 81217 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 5 Eugene O'Connor 2002-08-07 11:05:51 UTC
By retaining the "Clean Up" we use two verbs (Clean Up and Arrange) to
mean essentially the same thing. I think this is unnecessary and may
confuse users. Also, I think arrange describes the action more
accurately.

On the desktop background you can arrange icons manually or arrange
icons by name. Even though none of the other sort options available in
Nautilus windows are available, it is still valid to use Arrange in
the context of the desktop background.

I suggest:

s/Clean Up By Name/Arrange Icons by Name
-or-
s/Clean Up By Name/Arrange Items by Name   

I slightly prefer 'Items'.
Comment 6 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2002-08-08 11:59:23 UTC
eugene the issue you present is an issue of implementation. arrange by 
name, size etc. only affect fixed layout while clean up by name 
affects manual layout. 

I have proposed bug 74927 to merge these into just one set of menu 
items (arrange by ....), but to really do this correctly we would have 
to either ditch fixed layout alltogether or perhaps implement 
something akin to windows automatic layout, i have talked to dave c 
about this in the past, i have an open bug too, bug 84511.

but with the current design i dont think there is a good ui fix 
personally.
Comment 7 Calum Benson 2002-08-28 13:26:22 UTC
I think your proposal in bug #74927 is basically the way to go here...
have one set of "arrange by" options that changes the order of the
icons (whether on the desktop, icon view or list view), and a single
"tidy up" command to snap them to a grid.
Comment 8 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2002-08-28 20:05:37 UTC
couple of comments in response to calum:

1. I think we can exclude the list view in this discussion because its
ordering is determined by clicking on the column headers. This is
probably easier and faster, and helps avoid unneeded complexity.

2. The problem with implementing my suggestion in bug 74927 is that
currently the arrange options use check boxes, since automatic layout
is hard layout. This is different from windows auto-arrange as is
suggested in bug 84511, which is simply a gridded type of manual layout.

so i see a problem here if we integrate the two while keeping the
current style of automatic layout, in automatic layout mode, these ui
 elements will require check boxes, while in manual mode these option
should just be menu choices like clean up by name is.

I think the best solution here is to implement windows style
auto-arrange for the icon views and ditch the hard sorts. This is one
of the best features of explorer. I'm sorry im using this issue as a
sound board for this feature, but i can't really think of any better
way. Calum do you have any other ideas? 
Comment 9 Ben FrantzDale 2002-11-14 03:06:39 UTC
Why is "cut" and "copy" needed in directory views when they really
apply to the selected files. (You do get a Fitts' Law advantage by
putting them in the directory context menu, but that's a small
advantage compared with cleaning up the desktop context menu.)


Also, are "Duplicate" and "Make Link" really needed? 

"Duplicate" should be possible with copy and paste.
"Make Link" probably (I think) isn't used by beginners and both
actions can be done easily by right-draging.
Comment 10 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2002-11-14 03:48:51 UTC
ben:

1. Agree cut and copy are useless for the folder view. As far as 
fitts goes i think that context menus should be consistent according 
to an object type. (ie. all folder view context menus are always the 
same, all music file context menus are always the same etc.)

2. Duplicate and make link are needed because right now we do not 
have accessible drag and drop. 

3. Right click drag is one of the most terrible ui decisions ever 
made. It is completely hidden (i didn't even know it existed in 
windows or nautilus until i spent months churning through nautilus 
bug reports and somehow discovered its existance and I've been using 
windows since version 3.1) and it only serves as patchy fix to 
inconsistent drag and drop behavior 

from the interface hall of shame see: 
http://www.iarchitect.com/explore.htm#EXP5

Comment 11 Ben FrantzDale 2002-11-14 04:31:56 UTC
As for (2), I can agree with that although I still see it as kludgy.
Also, there is always copy/paste for duplicate, and everywhere but the
desktop there is the edit menu.

For (3), I have read about the issues with right-drag, but I find it
too useful to not like.
Comment 12 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2002-11-14 04:44:27 UTC
in regards to 2) see the current nautilus list (or maybe it was 
desktop devel...not sure) discussion of pickup and drop, i won't 
rehash that discussion here.

as for right click drag, i think its only useful because of the lack 
of accessible drag and drop. That said there are some other problems 
with it, but this bug is not the forum for that discussion. My main 
point is that we can not depend on this behavior as it just too 
hidden and inaccessible.
Comment 13 Aschwin van der Woude 2002-11-15 08:21:34 UTC
Bug #82768 holds a related issue about adding a 'Create new panel' to
the desktop context menu.
Comment 14 Aschwin van der Woude 2002-11-15 15:17:53 UTC
Bug #82463 discussed a related issue about 'new window'
Comment 15 Reinout van Schouwen 2002-12-01 14:58:00 UTC
Ben: FWIW, Copy and Paste are as much at home in a file manager as
'Move to Trash' and 'Run' are at home in a word processor. It's
confusing the terminology (why doesn't the computer ask me where I
want to copy the file to when I click Copy?) and raising expectations
that can't be fulfilled (why don't I get a new file with the text I
just copied to the clipboard in OpenOffice when I select Paste?).

So, having Copy and Paste instead of Duplicate is not a long-term
solution IMHO.
Comment 16 Calum Benson 2002-12-24 11:46:35 UTC
Is there a bug open for the feature Reinout mentioned?  (i.e. creating
a new Untitled file where possible when the thing on the clipboard
isn't another file?)  Sounds like it would be quite a nice idea...
Comment 17 Reinout van Schouwen 2003-02-09 15:58:11 UTC
With the growing Nautilus context menu in GNOME 2.2, today I found
myself very annoyed that the Properties item was at the bottom of the
menu. I had to strain my wrist to get there (and I have mouse
acceleration/speed set at maximum!). For a menu item that's used much
more often than, say, 'Scripts', I strongly feel it should be promoted
to somewhere on the top of the context menu.
Comment 18 Calum Benson 2003-03-24 16:23:16 UTC
Muscle strain issues apart (that just means the menu is too long to
start with, it needs to lose at least 5 items IMHO!), I guess the
question is whether you'd get to the Properties any quicker when you
had to look for it every time, which you would if it was buried in the
middle of the menu somewhere.  The top and bottom items of any menu
are generally the easiest ones to remember, so in fact there are
advantages to putting the most-frequently-accessed items at the top
and bottom, and less-frequently-accessed ones towards the middle.
Comment 19 Reinout van Schouwen 2003-03-31 19:23:08 UTC
Calum: there doesn't seem to be a bug open for the Paste thing but I
guess it depends on whether Cut/Copy/Paste is going to be replaced or
not. (bug 77293)

W.r.t. the Properties item, I say put it at the top then, I really
don't see any reason to keep "Open". I can open the item by
(double)clicking it or by pressing enter already, and otherwise
there's still 'Open with'.
Comment 20 Dave Bordoley [Not Reading Bug Mail] 2003-03-31 19:25:44 UTC
hig says the first item is always the same as double clicking on an
object (open)
Comment 21 Calum Benson 2003-06-25 23:06:29 UTC
Removing keynav keyword to get this off the a11y buglist, don't think
there are any outstanding keynav issues here.
Comment 22 Bryan W Clark 2004-08-11 05:01:20 UTC
Since the issues of cut/copy/paste have taken root in bug 77293 I don't see any
relevant items left in this bug that haven't been addressed.  The problems
Reinout mentioned in Comment #15 could be addressed if there actually were a new
paradigm being implemented for this.  Perhaps a discussion should be opened up
again.

Of course this kind of discussion should really take place on the mailing lists
and then recommendations be added to bugs so they don't get too out of hand. :-)