GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 318718
Use consistent units in procman
Last modified: 2015-03-17 11:07:18 UTC
#: ../src/util.c:93 #, c-format msgid "%.1f KiB" #: ../src/util.c:97 #, c-format msgid "%.1f MiB" #: ../src/util.c:101 #, c-format msgid "%.1f GiB" Please use units with the traditional prefixes (kB, MB, GB) in procman, for consistency with the rest of GNOME. The traditional prefixes is what is mandated in the GNOME glossary of terminology (http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/units.html).
i have to disagree. See discussion on #301838. Feel free to translate SI suffixes by non-SI suffixes in your own language.
I know all the arguments for and against using the SI prefixes, thank you. This is not about that. This is about being consistent with the rest of the desktop (or intentionally being breaking consistency). If you want to have SI units, fix the specs so that we can have it across the whole desktop. Otherwise please refrain from it.
I asked a number of my American friends what they think when they see "100 MiB." Every single one of them - without exception - said that it looked like a spelling error to them. If a locale uses SI units as their standard, then that's cool. But the source strings are in American English, and should be what American English-speakers expect to see. The units used in the United States are GB, MB, KB, etc., and are definitely what should appear in the source strings in my opinion. I am the first to agree that everyone should jump on board with SI units, but I don't think that it's GNOME's job to attempt to initiate the move for the Americans. It brings to mind the Canadian Broadcasting Corp's show "Talking To Americans", wherein Rick Mercer tells a random Texan on the street about how obesity is a real problem in Alberta, where the average person weighs nearly 8 kilometres. And the Texan nods emphatically and says, "That's a damn shame. I haven't weighed that much in my whole life."
There are already gnome software that uses SI units. nautilus-cd-burner for example. "I asked a number of my American friends what they think when they see "100 MiB." Every single one of them - without exception - said that it looked like a spelling error to them." You're free to translate the way you want. I just want things to be clear. If i/we use SI units it is to avoid confusion. I have personal bad experiences with software documentation (e.g system tools, like lvm, reiserfstools, xfstools, network tools, etc), and each time, i had to ask what k/M/G/etc mean. Eventually i had to look at the source code. Moreover this is even more confusing because gsm displays info about disks (usually use power of 2) and network (usually use power of 10). I don't want to make this mistake. If you think "KiB" is misleading for your people, feel free to translate by "KB". But at least, you know what you are translating.
Isn't it a bug that those messages are there at all? gnome-vfs provides gnome_vfs_format_file_size_for_display for the purpose of formatting byte sizes. (And using KiB/MiB/etc units for it was WONTFIXed in bug 301838.)
I think the solution is not to use MiB, KiB and other such units, but to use kB, MB instead with the correct value, tha is 1 kB = 1000 B, 1 GB = 1000 000 000. Indeed, not only it is the "user friendly solution"(*), but all hard drives (since at least 2001), DVD and future blue-ray and HD-DVD use this convention. Additionally, the most common underlying OS of Gnome, Linux, uses SI units for years. So, apart from the CDs and some memories (not all!), there is no more use of the mistaken 1K=2^10 and 1M=2^20. Please notice that even a 1.44 floppy disk did not contain 1.44 * 2^20 Bytes, but 1.44 * 1000 * 1024 to add to the confusion. (*) Aunt Tilly uses kilogram for 1000 gram and kilometer for 1000 meters. Manager Bill use kilo$ for 1000 $. Engineer Joe uses GHz for 10^9 Hz, and 1 GBit/s really means 10^9 Bits/s.
Again, please do not make this into a "which units are better" flame war. That discussion is totally beside the point, and if you prefer a particular kind of units, then please bring that discussion up elsewhere. The point here is that procman is inconsistent with the rest of the core GNOME Desktop and Developer Platform, and inconsistent with the consistency guidelines we have. The only exception is nautilus-cd-burner, and there's a seperate bug report for that; bug 163834. The other 68 modules, including Nautilus and gnome-vfs, use the traditional units when they use units, in order to make the desktop consistent. I don't care either way in what units we use, as long as they are being used consistently everywhere. I still beleive in GNOME being a usable and coherent desktop experience for end users. But what do I know; perhaps I'm just old-fashioned that way.
I don't care about consistent units when they are wrong.
I wouldn't define wrong as not complying to SI, otherwise those English and Americans have a wrong speed limit. However I would say that it is wrong to use one type of unit in one part of GNOME and another elsewhere. Units have already been agreed on, any discussion concerning the type of unit to be used should be filed as a bug concerning the style guide : http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/units.html. The way to get this changed is certainly not by starting to change the units used here and there in little parts of GNOME, it is *very* important to use consistent terminology throughout GNOME. Love, Karderio
Karderio, I think your analogy is not correct. The US and English people use miles per hour. There is nothing wrong about it. What would be wrong would be to use kilometers per hour and defining one kilometer as 1609 meters.
That is besides the point. No the analogy is not correct, it was supposed to be funny. The point is what comes next : basically please stick to one type of unit in GNOME, so as not to confuse users. I believe the rest of my comment to be both correct and pertinent, besides my attempt at humor, no ? I would very much like constructive criticism and corrections. I was basically agreeing with comment #7. Lets try this again : It is bad practice to use one type of unit in one part of GNOME and another elsewhere. This is very confusing. Units have already been agreed on, any discussion concerning the type of unit to be used should be filed as a bug concerning the style guide : http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/units.html. (I wouldn't mind confirmation on this) The way to get this changed is certainly not by starting to change the units used here and there in little parts of GNOME, it is *very* important to use consistent terminology throughout GNOME, not only concerning units. If you do not agree with the units used in GNOME, please start a discussion about it so that all may benefit from proper units. Love, Karderio
Actually, if you reword the comment as I meant it, it is manifestly correct : "If you define 'wrong' as not complying to SI, the speed limit in America is wrong, as it is not measured in SI units." Thankfully for a measurement to be considered correct, it need not be made in SI units.
Karderio, I am sorry to go on this off-topic discussion, but you _analogy_ is not correct. The problem raised here is not "analogous" to the example you give. I never said your sentence is wrong. The fact that the guidelines for units should be updated to avoid confusing units (such as binary quantities) is another topic and is (should be) probably discussed in another bug. Please also note that the solution Christian Rose and I propose in comments #1 and #6 follows the gnome guidelines.
I give up ! This could go on for ever. I say "No the analogy is not correct" and get told "but you _analogy_ is not correct" with added sarcasm. I do not agree with comment #13, but it would seem a waste of time explaining why.
Created attachment 56775 [details] [review] fix: use gnome_vfs_format_file_size_for_display
I haven't changed my mind.
Note that this has been called an "ugly hack" and overridden in Ubuntu. See: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-monitor/+bug/80780 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-monitor/+bug/123932 I think this is wrong would rather have the "hacked" version in Ubuntu, so it's consistent with other apps like gparted and nautilus-cd-burner. Looks like this would need to be changed in gnome-vfs for them to accept it?
Especially ironic since Ubuntu's own Launchpad bug tracker reports their patch size in correct units: "use normal units (1.9 KiB, text/plain)" :-)
We have users asking you to change this. We have developers asking you to change this. We have translators asking you to change this. We have distros giving up and changing it themselves. Are you absolutely positive that you know what American English users want?
(In reply to comment #19) > We have users asking you to change this. We have developers asking you to > change this. We have translators asking you to change this. We have distros > giving up and changing it themselves. Are you absolutely positive that you know > what American English users want? I'm an American English user and I like it the way it is. Ubuntu needs to remove their "patch" so the disk sizes are consistent with partition managers.