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Bug 132570 - [UI-REVIEW] Use separators or plain spacing instead of frames
[UI-REVIEW] Use separators or plain spacing instead of frames
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: gnome-calculator
Classification: Core
Component: general
unspecified
Other Linux
: High minor
: ---
Assigned To: Rich Burridge
Rich Burridge
Depends on:
Blocks: 132568
 
 
Reported: 2004-01-26 15:50 UTC by Lars Weber
Modified: 2004-12-22 21:47 UTC
See Also:
GNOME target: ---
GNOME version: ---


Attachments
Use spacing for widget grouping instead of frames (6.04 KB, patch)
2004-01-26 15:52 UTC, Lars Weber
none Details | Review
Use separators instead of frames for widget grouping (7.86 KB, patch)
2004-01-26 15:53 UTC, Lars Weber
none Details | Review
Screenshot of gcalctool using spacing instead of frames (44.86 KB, image/png)
2004-01-26 15:54 UTC, Lars Weber
  Details
Screenshot of gcalctool using separators instead of frames (44.94 KB, image/png)
2004-01-26 15:55 UTC, Lars Weber
  Details

Description Lars Weber 2004-01-26 15:50:27 UTC
The HIG says[1] that "[u]sing "white" or blank spacing and indentation to
delineate groups is cleaner and preferable to using graphical separators
such as frames."

The current heavy use of frames does not only make the interface of
gcalctool appear unnecessarily "heavy" but also makes it look different
from other GNOME apps because most other apps tend to avoid frames in
recent times and therefore have a cleaner interface.

Below I'll attach a patch to change the gcalctool interface to use spacing
only to indicate widget grouping instead of frames. The patch also changes
the widget-padding of 4 pixels for each button to a more HIG-compliant 6
pixels between each column/row, 6 pixels to the window border and 12 pixels
between the individual control groups.

An alternative patch additionally uses Gtk-separators to separate the
groups.  This patch might be used if spacing-only is considered to light. I
think that using separators is still a big improvment when compared to the
current use of frames.  However, personally at least I slightly prefer the
spacing-only setup.

Finally there's also one screenshot for each setup so that there's an easy
way to see what the results of the patches will look like.

Regards and thanks for your work on this application,
Lars

[1] See the 8th bullet-item at the following location:
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/layout.html#window-layout-spacing
Comment 1 Lars Weber 2004-01-26 15:52:48 UTC
Created attachment 23768 [details] [review]
Use spacing for widget grouping instead of frames
Comment 2 Lars Weber 2004-01-26 15:53:36 UTC
Created attachment 23769 [details] [review]
Use separators instead of frames for widget grouping
Comment 3 Lars Weber 2004-01-26 15:54:38 UTC
Created attachment 23770 [details]
Screenshot of gcalctool using spacing instead of frames
Comment 4 Lars Weber 2004-01-26 15:55:11 UTC
Created attachment 23771 [details]
Screenshot of gcalctool using separators instead of frames
Comment 5 Rich Burridge 2004-01-26 16:06:01 UTC
Adding Calum, my HIG person for his comments on this.
Comment 6 Calum Benson 2004-01-26 16:33:18 UTC
Spacing-only version gets my vote, looks less cluttered to me.
Comment 7 Bryan W Clark 2004-01-26 17:03:57 UTC
I believe a consensus was reached on irc.gnome.org in the #usability
channel for the spacing instead of the separators.  Even though
separators were my first love... *sigh* ;-)

Spacing gets my vote too.
Comment 8 Rich Burridge 2004-01-26 17:32:57 UTC
Changes checked into CVS HEAD (the spacing approach).
Fixed in v4.3.41 of gcalctool.
Thanks to Calum and Bryan for their reviews.
Thanks to Lars for doing all of the hard coding work!

Comment 9 bill.haneman 2004-05-18 10:31:22 UTC
This 'fix' broke high-contrast theming, since the frame borders are used to
delineate between objects which in HC themes have no bevels, etc. and which may
have the same bg color.
Comment 10 bill.haneman 2004-05-18 10:32:12 UTC
spacing is bad for high-contrast themes.  Why wasn't the a11y group pulled into
this discussion, I wonder?
Comment 11 Calum Benson 2004-05-18 13:29:54 UTC
Because the a11y group have never complained that spacing is bad for high
contrast themes before :)  AFAIK the calctool incident is the first time this
advice (which has been employed in GNOME for a good couple of years now) has
caused any visual issues serious enough to reconsider.

So, I guess we (the HIG and a11y teams) need to discuss what the general
solution is here... perhaps that windows should be designed with borderless
frames to separate groups (which isn't generally the case right now), and that
the HC engine should show them as non-borderless?  I dunno, I'll open another
bug about that and we can move discussion there.
Comment 12 Calum Benson 2004-05-18 13:37:23 UTC
Opened bug 142720 for that discussion.