<paolo> clarkbw: the screenshots are:
<paolo> http://www.gnome.org/~paolo/screenshots/new_prefs_dlg_editor.png
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<paolo> http://www.gnome.org/~paolo/screenshots/new_prefs_dlg_view.png
<paolo> http://www.gnome.org/~paolo/screenshots/new_prefs_dlg_colors.png
<paolo> http://www.gnome.org/~paolo/screenshots/new_prefs_dlg_syntax.png
<paolo> http://www.gnome.org/~paolo/screenshots/new_prefs_dlg_plugins.png
<paolo> and there is also a new close all dialogs: http://www.gnome.org/~paolo/screenshots/close_all_dlg.png
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<js> this is gedit?
<paolo> js: yep
<dowem> i was working on that one right now
<dowem> :)
<dowem> about to post my commets agreeing with seth and callum
<dowem> s/commets/comments
<paolo> dowem: great
<clarkbw> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=115437
<clarkbw> ^ shows a bunch of bugs related to gedit's ui-review of past
<paolo> A lot of them has been fixed. Some of them are related to the old prefs dialog, so they are no more important
<js> this preference dialog is new in 2.5?
<paolo> yep
<js> i don't use gedit enough apparently ;)
<paolo> hmmm... I don't remember... was it in 2.4 too ? 
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<js> nope. not in fedora gedit (2.4.0)
<paolo> js: ok, then it is new for 2.5 :-)
<js> ;) looks much better, too
<clarkbw> ok, so lets start with dlg_editor
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<js> I'd say there are primarily vocabulary issues. Tabs, Auto indentation, could this be expressed in a way more understandable to non-coders/techies?
<clarkbw> ok, suggestions?
<js> say, Tabulator spacing and uhm.
<js> just Automatic indentation perhaps. The abbreviation is not necessary, I think
<clarkbw> paolo, is either easier to translate?
* calum agrees with just "Automatic"
<paolo> I don't like "Tabulator spacing", but I agree on "Automatic"
<calum> I'd say "Tab width" instead of "Tabs width", too
<paolo> agree
<paolo> The problem I see are:
<paolo> [] Autosave files every [10|] minutes
<paolo> is not easy to translate since it break a phrase
<paolo> but I have not a suggestion
<calum> hmm, "Autosave interval: [10] mins", maybe?
<js> yeah
<paolo> I also don't like very much the Undo group
<clarkbw> i would get rid of the "files"
* calum forgets the docs' guys stance on "auto<blah>" as a word
<js> paolo, the whole undo group is unneccesary i think. unlimited undo should be a gconf-alterable default
<paolo> js: note that unlimited undo is a very memory consumpting feature
<calum> (ah, ok, "autosave" is indeed acceptable)
<paolo> clarkbw: are you taking notes?
<clarkbw> paolo, yes, saving IRC log :-)
<clarkbw> anyone want to open a bug on this?
<clarkbw> some place to store all the chat
<paolo> clarkbw: for gedit you can use http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100220
<clarkbw> paolo, oh yeah, i remember that one :)
<js> the undo bug seems to recommend what is in the current dialog
<paolo> js: yep, but I don't like the fact that we have: "Limit to " (i.e. a verb) and "Unlimited undo" (not a verb)
<clarkbw> paolo, are these the default values shown?
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<js> clark, yes
<paolo> clarkbw: hmm...no. The default should be "Limit to 25"
<js> woops
<paolo> is "Autosave interval: 10 minutes" clear enough?
<calum> "Allow unlimited undo" would be a bit more verby...
<clarkbw> paolo, yes
<paolo> yep, now we have "Limit to [5] _actions_" and "Allow unlimited _undo_"
<js> how about "Limited undo: 25 actions", and "Unlimited undo"?
<js> that avoids sentence breaking as well
<paolo> What about fixing a default of "100 actions" and removing the group from the dialog
<paolo> ?
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<paolo> Note that actions are words not chars
<js> i noticed that. I have a hard time imagining anyone undoing 100 words
<calum> if we were fixing a default and removing the group, wouldn't "unlimited" be a better default?
<paolo> calum: yep, but you will use a lot of memory if your editing session is long
<js> makes sense.
<js> the undo buffer would just grow and grow, even if you never undo anything
<paolo> yep
<dowem> well as a resonable compromise what about bounding it by setting a very large default value of say 100
<dowem> ideally i would say set it to unlimited undo and not show the ui option
<auspex> Header-free, one option removed:
<auspex> Tab width: [  8 ]
<auspex> [ ] Insert spaces instead of tabs
<auspex> [ ] Automatically indent programming languages
<auspex> [ ] Save files every [ 10] minutes
<auspex> [ ] Limit undo to [ 25] actions
<clarkbw> paolo, is it possible to do unlimited undo and save on memory during long sessions?
<paolo> auspex: a lot of people don't like the backup copy
<paolo> auspex: you can use auto indentation also editing normal files
<paolo> clarkbw: well, I should save undo buffer on disk... but it requires too much work
<js> i somewhat think that autoindent should be on by default
<js> it only responds to explicit indentation by the user, yes?
<clarkbw> paolo, that would be my idea suggestion, set a value like 50 and push to disk beyond that
<js> it seems more likely that you would want to indent a paragraph than just a single line
<clarkbw> people undo-ing more than 50 actions will understand an extra slowness from reading disk
<paolo> clarkbw: yep, but as I said it is hard to implement 
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<paolo> I prefer to set 100 or 200 as default and letting the advannce user to set unlimited undo using gconf-editor
<js> what kind of default behaviour does other editors have?
 paobac paolo 
<js> i think vim does unlimited undo by default
<clarkbw> paolo, can we set unlimited and let the advanced user set to 100 or 200?
<clarkbw> using gconf-editor
<paolo> dunno. BTW, we could go with my suggestion for 2.6 and eventually implement the clark one for 2.8
<auspex> paolo: The backup complaint is usually a command-line user complaint. The file manager can hide backups. So leave the option in gconf. Per auto-indent, *shrug*. I'd have to look at the algorithm, I think; but scratch "Enable"; that's what the checkbox means.
* auspex . o O ( Wow, my grammar's gone to hell. )
<js> clark, note that unlimited undo is basically a memory leak with the current implementation
 paobac paolo 
<js> it offers almost nothing, but potentially affects everyone
<clarkbw> paolo, ok lets go with 100 and push for unlimited by 2.8
<clarkbw> everyone ok with that?
<paolo> I agree ;)
<js> yes, calum?
<calum> sure
<paolo> what about the auspex's suggestion of removing the "backup copy" option?
* auspex . o O ( "the auspex"? Creepy thought. )
<js> converges with the default behaviour of atleast vim, so it might be ok
<paolo> And what about changing "Enable auto indentation" with "Automatically indent text"
<paolo> ?
<auspex> What other than text would it automatically indent?
<paolo> nothing
<js> the dialog should communicate in complete sentences
<clarkbw> yeah, remove the backup copy option (should always be on)
<clarkbw> doesn't matter to me if you leave the gconf option
<clarkbw> agreed on a i t
<auspex> The object "text" should be more specific or omitted. "Automatically indent new lines"?  Is that even close to how it works?
<clarkbw> but what will the title read?
<paobac> some file roller screenshots: http://www.gnome.org/~paobac/screenshots/
<clarkbw> thanks paobac
<js> auspex, not really. it specifically means "Keep the indentation level of the previous line" i think
<auspex> Or perhaps "text" is OK and I'm the only guy who would wonder what else could be indented.
<paolo> js: good suggestion
<paolo> What about:
<paolo> Tabs
<paolo>   Tab width: [8]
<paolo>   [ ] Insert spaces instead of tabs
<paolo> Automatic Indentation
<paolo>   [ ] Keep the indentation level of the previous line
<paolo> File Saving
<paolo>   [ ] Autosave files
<paolo>   Autosave interval: [ ] minutes
<auspex> I don't think the headers are necessary.
<calum> perhaps ought to be "Tab width: [8] spaces"...?
<paolo> hmmm... still not sure on the File Saving group
<calum> otherwise it could mean 8 spaces, 8mm, 8cm, 8 miles... :)
<clarkbw> s/File/Document or something similar
<clarkbw> or don't mention File at all
<js> auspex, there's space for them in the dialog, and they will be more or less required in other tabs, so i think they're ok
<auspex> calum: But wouldn't that be confusing with the "spaces instead of tabs" option?
<calum> yeah, potentially...
<auspex> clarkbw: This is gedit: it works on files.
<paolo> clarkbw: Yep, but I still prefer the "[ ] Autosave documents every [10] minutes"
<auspex> js: Maybe. I'm looking at the others and I suspect they can be eliminated too.
<clarkbw> auspex, no gedit works on text, computers work on files
<clarkbw> paobac, can you make the screenshots of just the file-roller windows
* paolo likes headers
<dowem> noah: are you an i18n specialist by any chance?
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<clarkbw> paobac, [alt]-[printscreen] i believe
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<clarkbw> paolo, ok i like that
<paobac> clarkbw: ok, next time I'll do 
