**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 22 11:02:11 2004

Jul 22 11:02:11 -->	You are now talking on #ui-review
Jul 22 11:02:12 ---	Monkey gives channel operator status to clarkbw
Jul 22 11:04:18 ---	clarkbw has changed the topic to: ui-review ggv today @ 19:00 UTC
Jul 22 11:10:26 <--	danw has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds)
Jul 22 11:14:05 <smoke>	well its no wonder i dont use it much
Jul 22 11:15:04 -->	danw (~danw@130.57.22.69) has joined #ui-review
Jul 22 11:15:04 ---	Monkey gives channel operator status to danw
Jul 22 11:17:39 -->	ficusplanet (~brad@12-216-224-104.client.mchsi.com) has joined #ui-review
Jul 22 11:59:14 -->	billh (~bill@beryllium.eu.sun.com) has joined #ui-review
Jul 22 11:59:39 <billh>	19:00?  did the time change?
Jul 22 12:10:39 <danw>	from what?
Jul 22 12:10:49 <danw>	the review starts in an hour and 45 minutes
Jul 22 12:11:27 <billh>	d-d-l post said 11:00am EDT, which would be 15:00 UTC
Jul 22 12:12:14 <danw>	friday's control-center review is at 15:00 UTC. today's ggv review is at 19:00 UTC
Jul 22 13:16:56 <--	billh (~bill@beryllium.eu.sun.com) has left #ui-review
Jul 22 13:58:24 -->	iaka (~jaka@BSN-95-243-125.dsl.siol.net) has joined #ui-review
Jul 22 14:00:53 <clarkbw>	hi iaka
Jul 22 14:00:53 <iaka>	good evening, folks! there's still an hour left until the review, I believe - I've never really been good with these timezones when DST is in effect...
Jul 22 14:01:28 <iaka>	hello, Bwyan, I believe;)
Jul 22 14:01:53 <clarkbw>	i believe 1900 UTC is right now
Jul 22 14:02:38 <danw>	um... it's not actually
Jul 22 14:02:40 <danw>	huh
Jul 22 14:02:44 <iaka>	well, http://www.worldtimeserver.com/time.asp?locationid=utc says otherwise, but never mind...
Jul 22 14:02:47 <danw>	("date -u" is your friend)
Jul 22 14:03:11 <iaka>	I suppose it would be nice to wait until it _really_ is 1900UTC, just in case someone else wants to show up;)
Jul 22 14:03:11 <clarkbw>	ah ha!
Jul 22 14:03:35 <iaka>	it's the goddamn daylight saving time that makes the usual offsets offset a bit more, I think...
Jul 22 14:06:40 <iaka>	never mind - since I just came in from my evening run, a shower will prove the Right Thing To Do(tm); see you in an hour...
Jul 22 14:06:43 <clarkbw>	ok, so we should wait until it's *actually* 1900 UTC :)  just to be fair
Jul 22 14:06:50 <clarkbw>	ok
Jul 22 15:01:44 <danw>	time?
Jul 22 15:01:52 <iaka>	yup, time...
Jul 22 15:02:16 <danw>	when we last left our heros...
Jul 22 15:03:34 <iaka>	...were indulging in all kinds of bizarre activities, but now they stand here, united again, ready to face the evil spirit of a PostScript previewer's user interface...
Jul 22 15:03:40 <iaka>	(never mind my ramblings)
Jul 22 15:04:06 <iaka>	so, where's Bryan - I kind of believed he was going to moderate this session
Jul 22 15:07:08 <danw>	clarkbw?
Jul 22 15:09:05 <clarkbw>	hey iaka, i'm here
Jul 22 15:09:22 <iaka>	well, I suppose we can begin now...
Jul 22 15:09:38 <iaka>	and I further suppose that you, clarkbw, will begin;)
Jul 22 15:09:46 <clarkbw>	ha ha :)
Jul 22 15:10:09 <clarkbw>	ok, so lets start with what's going on with ggv so far
Jul 22 15:10:35 <iaka>	hmmm, that one's mine to answer, huh? all right...
Jul 22 15:11:14 <iaka>	the fact is that not much has been going on with ggv since its embracing the Gnome & GTK+ 2.x APIs
Jul 22 15:11:44 <iaka>	Ever since 2.0.0 release I have been mostly doing the maintainer's chores
Jul 22 15:11:49 <iaka>	fixing little bugs
Jul 22 15:12:00 <iaka>	and removing deprecated calls in favour of the new GTK APIs
Jul 22 15:12:17 <iaka>	in the process GGV also got mostly HIGified
Jul 22 15:12:35 <iaka>	afaik completely higgified; correct me if I'm wrong
Jul 22 15:13:09 <iaka>	actually GGV is a bit of a schizofrene app
Jul 22 15:13:12 <danw>	you can always get more higgified
Jul 22 15:13:16 <iaka>	;)
Jul 22 15:13:29 <iaka>	on one hand, I have always wanted to simplify its UI
Jul 22 15:13:46 <iaka>	but on the other, GGV, being a PS previewer, is heavily used in the academic world
Jul 22 15:14:00 <iaka>	and those guys constantly come up with requests for enhancements like:
Jul 22 15:14:31 <iaka>	"could we add another option so that when I change the page, GGV would automagically scroll to the upper left corner of the page and change its zoom to 137%"
Jul 22 15:14:33 <iaka>	sigh...
Jul 22 15:14:38 <clarkbw>	heh
Jul 22 15:14:42 <iaka>	so it's really hard to keep everybody happy
Jul 22 15:15:27 <iaka>	Jeff mentioned in an email the idea of a common previewer for raster images, PDFs and PS
Jul 22 15:15:37 <iaka>	and I support the idea with all my heart and soul
Jul 22 15:15:44 <danw>	that seems like a really good idea
Jul 22 15:16:15 <danw>	and even if we didn't do that, it seems like making ggv and gpdf more like each other would be good
Jul 22 15:16:32 <danw>	(which from a quick look this morning, I think means "making ggv more like gpdf")
Jul 22 15:16:48 <clarkbw>	iaka, what are your thoughts on that possibility?
Jul 22 15:16:57 <iaka>	indeed: I want a simpler interface for ggv as well, but as I stated above that will make a bunch of people unhappy
Jul 22 15:17:16 <clarkbw>	it's really where i'd like to see this thing go
Jul 22 15:17:32 <iaka>	I'd like to see The Single Previewer(tm)
Jul 22 15:18:02 <clarkbw>	i think the requirements of the users are very similar
Jul 22 15:18:30 <danw>	would be nice if it did dvi too. you still find those now and then...
Jul 22 15:18:32 <iaka>	furthermore I'd like to offload the UI part of TSP to someone else and only provide a widget (in a form of a Bonobo component or an ordinary GTK widget in a library) that would expose API for the TSP
Jul 22 15:18:45 <iaka>	dvi can be done via dvi->ps or dvi->pdf conversion...
Jul 22 15:18:51 <iaka>	otherwise you need to understand TeX fonts
Jul 22 15:18:58 <iaka>	and possibly some other TeX stuff
Jul 22 15:18:59 <danw>	yeah, well, OS X does that for PS -> PDF and it's annoying and slow
Jul 22 15:19:21 <danw>	there could be separate bonobo viewers for ps, pdf, and dvi. with a common interface for things like zoom/change page/select region
Jul 22 15:19:43 <iaka>	I like danw's idea
Jul 22 15:19:49 <iaka>	that's precisely what I wanted to suggest
Jul 22 15:20:08 <clarkbw>	i'm good with that
Jul 22 15:20:25 <iaka>	and not all previewers would need to support all interfaces, since capabilities of each format are quite different - let me give you an example
Jul 22 15:21:02 <danw>	does it make sense to merge in eog too as jdub suggested? and if so, does it makes sense to merge in video support? (i suspect the only reason OS X Preview doesn't is because they want to hype the QuickTime brand with its own app)
Jul 22 15:21:28 <iaka>	the example are pages: raster images are usually single page docs (except for tiff), PS is a flat document with a number of pages and PDFs can have a hierarchical structure that preserves organisation of a book in chapters, sections, subsections and pages
Jul 22 15:21:38 <clarkbw>	i don't think it really makes sense for eog to be included as well
Jul 22 15:21:42 <iaka>	so we need to come up with interfaces that would accomodate every format
Jul 22 15:21:48 <danw>	yeah, i agree
Jul 22 15:21:53 <clarkbw>	i think the use case for eog is more of a filmstrip viewer
Jul 22 15:22:26 <iaka>	I believe eog should be included as well
Jul 22 15:22:41 <danw>	ooh, multi-page tiff scans do belong in this app
Jul 22 15:23:07 <iaka>	it just would support the "paging" interface, which would in turn omit a part of the UI dedicated to page changes
Jul 22 15:23:34 <danw>	s/would/would not/ i think
Jul 22 15:23:50 <iaka>	right, you sed expression is correct
Jul 22 15:24:49 <iaka>	anyway, the Single Previewer idea would require quite some work
Jul 22 15:25:06 <iaka>	and, of course is feasible in time for 2.10 or 2.0 or whatever comes after 2.8
Jul 22 15:25:17 <iaka>	that is s/2.0/3.0
Jul 22 15:25:42 <clarkbw>	ok, lets start working towards that
Jul 22 15:25:54 <iaka>	first step is to decide which apps to merge
Jul 22 15:26:02 <clarkbw>	we need to come up with this idea of a "paging viewer", ui design for it
Jul 22 15:26:14 <iaka>	I propose eog, gpdf and ggv
Jul 22 15:26:20 <iaka>	then comes the interface design
Jul 22 15:26:24 <iaka>	and only then comes the UI design
Jul 22 15:26:36 <clarkbw>	no no no! :-)
Jul 22 15:26:37 <iaka>	especially the interface design needs to be though out very well
Jul 22 15:26:48 <clarkbw>	interface design, then what we're going to merge
Jul 22 15:27:16 <danw>	whether or not we merge eog affects the design
Jul 22 15:27:27 <iaka>	right, the interface design needs to have a goal (I'm no taoist, sadly...)
Jul 22 15:27:35 <iaka>	so inclusion or noninclusion of eog is critical
Jul 22 15:27:35 <clarkbw>	heh
Jul 22 15:28:05 <clarkbw>	so i think if we decide on a "page viewer", we'll come up with pdf, ggv
Jul 22 15:28:17 <iaka>	why not eog as well?
Jul 22 15:28:19 <clarkbw>	but images aren't necessarily in page order
Jul 22 15:28:23 <danw>	the functionality of eog is quite similar to ggv/gpdf, minus multipage stuff
Jul 22 15:28:27 <iaka>	it mostly displays documents with a single page
Jul 22 15:28:33 <iaka>	just like ggv when EPSF files are shown
Jul 22 15:28:36 <danw>	(zoom, rotate, etc)
Jul 22 15:28:54 <clarkbw>	image viewers have slideshows too
Jul 22 15:29:03 <clarkbw>	page viewers don't want that really
Jul 22 15:29:17 <danw>	gpdf apparently does...
Jul 22 15:29:28 <danw>	wasnm't that what fullscreen mode was for?
Jul 22 15:29:42 <clarkbw>	fullscreen is differnt than slideshow
Jul 22 15:29:48 <iaka>	no, I believe the FS mode is just to get the most out of your screen real estate
Jul 22 15:29:51 <iaka>	ggv does that too
Jul 22 15:29:52 <clarkbw>	slideshow is automatic, which you can't do for text items
Jul 22 15:31:54 <iaka>	if we go for the single previewer option, we should ask the eog and gpdf teams about their opinion
Jul 22 15:32:03 <iaka>	the ggv team is, sadly, all here;)
Jul 22 15:32:17 <danw>	how do you make eog do slideshow?
Jul 22 15:32:27 <iaka>	except for the kind guys from WIPRO that are paid by Sun to fix a bug now and then...
Jul 22 15:33:49 <danw>	ah. it gives you either "fullscreen" or "slideshow" as an option, depending on whether you are viewing one or many images. and the default slideshow options don't have automatic transitions. and you can use left/right arrow to move back and forth. it's really *very* much like gpdf's fullscreen mode
Jul 22 15:35:22 <clarkbw>	i can talk to the gpdf team to see if we can get some consensus on this plan
Jul 22 15:35:48 <iaka>	good: someone should also contact the eog maintainer...
Jul 22 15:36:31 <iaka>	would it be wise to start a thread on d-d-l? I kind of dislike such lengthy discussions, but maybe we could get some good ideas...
Jul 22 15:39:05 <clarkbw>	yes, i'd go with d-d-l as a last move, we really need to collect our ideas and maintainer buy in
Jul 22 15:39:20 <clarkbw>	then present them all to the d-d-l, otherwise we'll just get lots of noise
Jul 22 15:41:27 <clarkbw>	we worked out some good navigation ideas with gpdf during that review
Jul 22 15:41:39 <danw>	and then reconvene? or do we still want to try to talk about ggv today? (the preferences dialog?)
Jul 22 15:41:46 <clarkbw>	we should probably merge those into this universal viewer
Jul 22 15:42:08 <clarkbw>	for the long term convergence we'll need to reconvene
Jul 22 15:42:21 <danw>	"document viewer". there we go. was trying to think of something better than "page viewer"
Jul 22 15:42:22 <iaka>	I believe that we should meet with the gpdf and eog developers for the TSP idea
Jul 22 15:42:44 <danw>	though i guess the word "document" is interpreted too broadly these days, so that doesn't actually work
Jul 22 15:42:46 <iaka>	we can talk about GGV for 2.8 today... I'm all ears...
Jul 22 15:43:33 <clarkbw>	yes, lets move on to what's happening in the next release and i'll setup a time for everyone to meet next
Jul 22 15:43:57 <clarkbw>	it'll probably be earlier so we can get more eu people
Jul 22 15:44:16 <clarkbw>	oh, jens (eog maintainer) doesn't do IRC so that might be difficult
Jul 22 15:44:56 <iaka>	it should be at an hour similar to the one today, but not on friday or saturday (speaking on the behalf of the EU people;)
Jul 22 15:45:13 <iaka>	I tend to go to work late and return late;)
Jul 22 15:45:34 <clarkbw>	ok, noted :)
Jul 22 15:45:59 <danw>	we seem to have not gotten any sun people though. (billh was here earlier, but left)
Jul 22 15:46:23 <iaka>	now: GGV and the preferences dialog - what about it?
Jul 22 15:47:10 <danw>	well.. the Ghostscript page is particularly scary
Jul 22 15:47:48 <iaka>	indeed, but sometimes necessary - I could drop it and leave the power users to use gconf-editor to change the settings there
Jul 22 15:48:10 <danw>	necessary for what? what changes do people need to make?
Jul 22 15:49:18 <iaka>	the transition from GS 5.x to 6.x needed some changes in the antialiasing settings for example; and I do know a bunch of people using the former version...
Jul 22 15:49:52 <iaka>	Joe the Ordinary User doesn't need it, but I was talking about a very special group of people that constitute, I belive, a majority of GGV users
Jul 22 15:49:57 <danw>	hm... and does it actually just splice raw filenames into those strings like it looks like it does? If I receive a file in evolution named "foo; rm -rf ~; echo bar.ps", am I really screwed if I tell it to open it in ggv?
Jul 22 15:49:59 <iaka>	ordinary users mostly view PDFs
Jul 22 15:50:34 <iaka>	PS viewing folks are usually people sending article drafts to science magazines
Jul 22 15:51:19 <danw>	i guess normal users probably aren't going to need to touch the prefs at all...
Jul 22 15:51:32 <iaka>	no, actually, it will attempt to open the file with the name that is made of everything you put in quotes
Jul 22 15:51:46 <iaka>	reporting a kind of "file not found" error
Jul 22 15:52:07 <iaka>	at least I believe that's how I coded it;)
Jul 22 15:52:29 <iaka>	you are very welcome to try the above string with ggv, though;)
Jul 22 15:53:26 <iaka>	after opening the file, the code feeds appropriate parts of the PS file via pipe to the Ghostscript process
Jul 22 15:53:42 <danw>	oh, i was talking about the pdf->ps conversion strings
Jul 22 15:53:49 <danw>	/usr/bin/gs -q -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -dSAFER -dQUIET -sDEVICE=pswrite -sOutputFile=%s -c save pop -f %s
Jul 22 15:54:27 <iaka>	hmmm, in that case you might actually be screwed... I need to check and fix this - thanks for spotting it
Jul 22 15:54:41 <iaka>	I do think it quotes the filenames, though, so there is no such danger
Jul 22 15:54:46 <iaka>	but I really have to recheck
Jul 22 15:55:00 <danw>	unless the filename has quotes in it too
Jul 22 15:55:23 <iaka>	but, GGV's PDF viewing capabilities are no longer actively supported, since I think gpdf, being a native PDF viewer, can do much better job at it
Jul 22 15:55:30 <iaka>	it's just taking gpdf so long...
Jul 22 15:55:34 <iaka>	;)
Jul 22 15:56:16 <danw>	what about printing? looks like it doesn't use libgnomeprintui?
Jul 22 15:56:32 <iaka>	I was already thinking of preventing ggv to show pdfs at all since a large portion of the bug reports concern PDFs where ggv really is not all that good since it does PDF->PS conversion, losing much information that is available in PDFs on the way
Jul 22 15:56:44 <iaka>	heh, printing is a completely different issue. let me clarify...
Jul 22 15:56:54 <danw>	yeah, i was jumping topics
Jul 22 15:57:07 <danw>	but jumping back, maybe you should drop pdf support for 2.8?
Jul 22 15:57:29 <iaka>	using libgnomeprintui and especially that sexy print dialog it provides depends on using libgnomeprint to actually print
Jul 22 15:57:47 <danw>	huh. suck.
Jul 22 15:57:55 <iaka>	and GGV *can not* use libgnomeprint to print, since a PS document is already as printable as it can get
Jul 22 15:58:14 <iaka>	PS is actually data being sent to PostScript capable printers, right?
Jul 22 15:58:23 <iaka>	so it would make no sense to rerender it using libgnomeprint
Jul 22 15:58:54 <danw>	right. though this probably means if you try to print to a non-ps printer, you get pages and pages of postscript source code, right?
Jul 22 15:58:55 <iaka>	completely ignoring the fact that in order to render PS using libgnomeprint I would have to duplicate *complete* Ghostscript functionality
Jul 22 15:59:18 <iaka>	a task which I do not have the time or the knowledge to do
Jul 22 15:59:58 <danw>	looks like gpdf doesn't support printing at all...
Jul 22 16:00:23 <danw>	oops, it does, just only if you have a file open
Jul 22 16:01:01 <iaka>	well, concerning non-PS printers, most UNIX printing systems install printer filters in case of non-ps printers, so that when you call lpr (or cups) to print, lpr first pipes the PS file through a "filter" (in case of PS file this would be ghostscript) that renders the PS into a format that the printer can understand
Jul 22 16:01:18 <iaka>	of course, Joe the Ordinary User, doesn't know s* about printing filters
Jul 22 16:01:35 <danw>	ah, right. the filter, which will call gs for you :)
Jul 22 16:02:43 <iaka>	the bottom line is: I'd be very happy if I could have such a sexy print dialog, but that pretty much requires copy-pasting the UI code from libgnomeprintui and tweaking the backend to accomodate non-libgnomeprint print jobs. not a very Good Thing(tm) to do...
Jul 22 16:02:46 <danw>	ok, so i think libgnomeprintui needs to be fixed/extended to let you use it
Jul 22 16:03:10 <iaka>	indeed: libgnomeprintui needs to be more loosely coupled with  libgnomeprint
Jul 22 16:03:35 <danw>	wonder how gpdf does it
Jul 22 16:04:07 <iaka>	my idea is that the GnomePrintJob object (which is now provided by libgnomeprint) should be an abstraction and the one provided by libgnomeprint derived from that abstract GnomePrintJob class
Jul 22 16:04:23 <iaka>	libgnomeprintui would just use the abstract interface and not care about the underlying implementation
Jul 22 16:05:12 <iaka>	of course it is for the libgnomeprint maintainer (Raph? or is it someone else these days?) to decide if this is feasible and/or smart to do at all
Jul 22 16:05:32 <iaka>	I think gpdf uses libgnomeprint to render the preview as well
Jul 22 16:05:38 <danw>	definitely not raph. not sure who it is. owen has been hacking on it some
Jul 22 16:05:42 <iaka>	and then printing is just a natural extension of previewing
Jul 22 16:05:53 <danw>	ah... clever
Jul 22 16:06:13 <clarkbw>	iaka, martin (from gpdf) is working with owen on the gpdf libgnomeprint issues regarding font
Jul 22 16:06:28 <clarkbw>	i haven't checked in on their progress though
Jul 22 16:06:33 <danw>	this isn't about fonts though
Jul 22 16:06:58 <iaka>	no, this is about the fact that libgnomeprintui and libgnomeprint are too tightly coupled
Jul 22 16:07:18 <iaka>	but it is not our job to decide how to solve this - we can merely hint to the libgnomeprintui maintainer...
Jul 22 16:07:47 <danw>	yeah. and there probably won't be a fix for 2.8. so probably that prefs page has to stay as well
Jul 22 16:08:05 <iaka>	as I stated - the prefs page can (and I even believe it should) go out
Jul 22 16:08:14 <iaka>	as you said: most users never touch it, so no harm is done
Jul 22 16:08:36 <iaka>	for the ones with the urge to tweak each and every setting, there is the gconf-editor
Jul 22 16:08:45 <iaka>	I belive in that "less is more" doctrine;)
Jul 22 16:08:52 <iaka>	at least with user interfaces
Jul 22 16:09:13 <iaka>	printing can't be fixed for 2.8 though
Jul 22 16:09:20 <iaka>	I do not want to do a copy-paste of the dialog
Jul 22 16:09:35 <iaka>	since that will only leave me synchronizing the code every time libgnomeprintui changes
Jul 22 16:11:34 <iaka>	is there anything more about the prefs?
Jul 22 16:11:50 <clarkbw>	get rid of 'em! :)
Jul 22 16:12:35 <danw>	yeah, a lot of them seem... less necessary :)
Jul 22 16:13:25 <iaka>	yes, I always use only one combination of those navigation settings and fallback page sizes and orinetations
Jul 22 16:13:26 <danw>	and 0.25 is a really weird default for "Amount of visible area to scroll". And it took me years of using gv before I realized that the black rectangle that flashes when you scroll wasn't a bug.
Jul 22 16:14:17 <iaka>	the black rectangle (modelled after gv) is precisely the result of a ton of user wishes - you can go check the bugzilla if you like;)
Jul 22 16:14:29 <danw>	ah. well then
Jul 22 16:15:01 <iaka>	that's the very problem with ggv - it is widely used among people that are not exactly "ordinary" gnome users...
Jul 22 16:15:31 <danw>	well, the problem it's solving is real, it's just a slightly odd solution.
Jul 22 16:15:45 <iaka>	suggestions?
Jul 22 16:15:47 <danw>	windows-style smooth scrolling is nice, but that belongs much lower in the stack (like, gtk)
Jul 22 16:18:24 <iaka>	hmmm, I could do a test release with really ascetic preferences dialog, but what worries me is that 2.7.x will not be tested extensively by the people that usually use ggv, resulting in a zillion angry emails and bug reports when 2.8 makes its way to the desktops...
Jul 22 16:18:43 <danw>	they'll call it "spatial ggv" :)
Jul 22 16:18:51 <iaka>	:)))))))
Jul 22 16:19:01 <clarkbw>	if you wanted to separate the properties ui out into it's own window
Jul 22 16:19:01 <danw>	i guess that normal users are never going to open the prefs dialog anyway...
Jul 22 16:19:13 <clarkbw>	ggv-preferences packaged as weel
Jul 22 16:19:15 <clarkbw>	*well
Jul 22 16:19:37 <clarkbw>	i'm fearing that these strange user cases are going to make it difficult for us to create a document viewer
Jul 22 16:19:57 <danw>	clarkbw: have you ever used the original gv?
Jul 22 16:20:19 <clarkbw>	back in 1.4 days
Jul 22 16:20:22 <danw>	clarkbw: it sounds like his users are just requesting exactly the features that it had, with exactly the same implementation.
Jul 22 16:20:34 <iaka>	as far as the document viewer goes, I was kind of hoping to make it the part of the desktop, while ggv could live its own life in the quiet waters of the academia world
Jul 22 16:20:48 <iaka>	ggv would only provide a bonobo component or a widget library for the document viewer
Jul 22 16:20:48 <danw>	so it's not necessarily that the use case is strange, as that neither we nor they know exactly what would actually serve their needs best
Jul 22 16:21:34 <iaka>	I would also like to add some very limited PS editing capabilities to ggv if the document viewer happens, like cropping and some ps2ps functionality
Jul 22 16:21:58 <iaka>	but that's another matter altogether; it's not going to happen as logn as ggv is part of the desktop
Jul 22 16:22:26 <clarkbw>	iaka, i think that's a good direction
Jul 22 16:22:45 <iaka>	yeah, but it needs a vast amount of cooperation from quite a few people
Jul 22 16:22:57 <iaka>	making it a pain;)
Jul 22 16:23:02 <clarkbw>	redhat is shutting down the network soon.  so i might blip offline any moment
Jul 22 16:23:18 <iaka>	well, let's sum up the decisions if there were any?
Jul 22 16:23:24 <clarkbw>	*.boston.redhat that is
Jul 22 16:24:01 <iaka>	I suggest dumping the Ghostscript prefs page
Jul 22 16:24:12 <clarkbw>	long term: bonobo component, printing fixed, unify viewer
Jul 22 16:24:32 <clarkbw>	short term: dump prefs, the defaults look ok
Jul 22 16:24:39 <iaka>	bonobo component is there: we just need a consensus on the interfaces
Jul 22 16:24:47 <danw>	i think the default scroll size should be much large
Jul 22 16:24:48 <iaka>	dump prefs: to what extent?
Jul 22 16:25:00 <clarkbw>	the prefs page
Jul 22 16:25:00 <danw>	normally apps scroll almost a full page, ggv scrolls 1/4 page
Jul 22 16:25:31 <iaka>	the prefs page? which prefs page?
Jul 22 16:25:45 <iaka>	I suggest you both email me a short email with your wishes concerning the prefs
Jul 22 16:25:54 <clarkbw>	i'd get rid of most of them really :)
Jul 22 16:26:09 <clarkbw>	but we'd need to work different ways to get to the options
Jul 22 16:26:18 <clarkbw>	like view->sidebar shouldn't be in the prefs
Jul 22 16:26:25 <clarkbw>	it should be in the menu
Jul 22 16:26:26 <danw>	it's in the menu too
Jul 22 16:26:37 <iaka>	and I'll then retreat to a cave in the mountains for a few weeks with no food, just water and an assorted hallucinogen herbs and contemplate your ideas
Jul 22 16:26:46 <clarkbw>	heh
Jul 22 16:27:55 <iaka>	really, an email would be best: but I suggest you do it real soon - I belive UI freeze is going to hit us very soon
Jul 22 16:28:16 <clarkbw>	i'd drop layout, ghostscript and the document pages
Jul 22 16:28:19 <clarkbw>	iaka, right
Jul 22 16:28:37 <clarkbw>	danw and i live pretty close to each other, we could meet to discuss and just unify our email
Jul 22 16:29:13 <clarkbw>	if that's ok with you dan?
Jul 22 16:29:16 <danw>	this sounds like an excuse for going out drinking :)
Jul 22 16:29:38 <clarkbw>	yup :)
Jul 22 16:29:39 <danw>	but yeah, sounds ok
Jul 22 16:30:09 <iaka>	hehe: just don't write the email when you're hung over. write while you're still drunk! have a nice afternoon, or whatever is it in that state with strange name full of s-es right now
Jul 22 16:30:15 <clarkbw>	i'll start to setup a meeting with the maintainers eog, gpdf, ggv
Jul 22 16:30:50 <clarkbw>	ok great, you too :)
Jul 22 16:33:07 <--	ficusplanet (~brad@12-216-224-104.client.mchsi.com) has left #ui-review
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